Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Boobs are an important part in helping to get a female looking body, so what about them?

Boobs come in many shapes and forms, and are on the minds of many women.  So, what about them?  I will start here with some pages on boobs!

A big issue with trans women, as well as with cis teenagers, is the question how will my breasts look like, what is normal and what is not, how will my nipples be or my areolae (or areolas), etc..

I compiled some information to answer all these questions, and I hope this will help you to be at ease with the boobs you have!

Breasts come in a wide range of shapes and sizes. No two people have breasts that look exactly the same.
So, what’s “normal” when it comes to breasts? How do your breasts measure up?
The answer is that your breasts are unique, and it’s perfectly OK that they have their own distinctive shape and size.
Even if your breasts take after a common “type,” they probably have variations that set them apart from the next person’s.
Some breasts have characteristics associated with multiple types and can’t be boxed into one specific category.

Archetype
The archetypal breast — round and full with a small point at the nipple — is considered the “standard” for breast type.
It’s said to be the most common shape, so it’s what most bra manufacturers model their designs after.



Asymmetrical
Asymmetrical breasts are of two different sizes. It’s pretty common for breasts to be uneven by a cup size or less, and more than half of people have some variation between breast size.



Athletic
Athletic breasts are wider, with more muscle and less breast tissue.



Bell Shape
Bell-shaped breasts resemble a bell, with a narrow top and a rounder bottom.



Relaxed
With this shape, the breasts have a lax tissue and because of that, the nipples are looking downward. You have longer breasts and they hang.



 East West
Women with East-West shape are characterized by a wide-set of breasts and they gravitate outward from the chest. The nipples point outward in opposite directions. It's difficult to achieve a cleavage with this shape of breasts.



Round
The breasts are equally full at the top and at the bottom.



Side Set
With this shape, there's is a wide space between breasts. This shape is similar to the East-West, but here the gap's in the center and the breasts are more full-shaped and the nipples face more forward.



Slender
With a slender shape, the breasts are thinner and the nipples are pointing downward. The breasts are slightly longer not wider.



Tear Drop
Tear-Drop shaped breasts are round too (like the Bell Shape) but they are less full at the top.




To be continued.


Hugs
Linde
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Tanner Stages

Many of us have heard about Tanner breast development staging  It is also known as Sexual Maturity Rating (SMR) .
It was developed by Marshall and Tanner.  Based on observational data they developed scales for, among others, the development breasts in females.

The increase of estrogen facilitates the development of breasts.  It is a very complex process during puberty, which I do not want to describe in any detail here, because for trans women it is the estrogen that is added from the outside, which initiates and maintains this process.

Puberty in females begins with the development of breast buds under the areola, also known as thelarche, and represents entry into Tanner Stage 2. As puberty progresses, the glandular tissue of the breast increases in size and changes in contour.  Between Tanner Stage 2 and 3 breast development, females experience peak height velocity. Tanner Stage 3 through 5 describes further different breast development.

Female Breast Development Scale
  Tanner I
no glandular tissue: areola follows the skin contours of the chest (prepubertal) (typically age 10 and younger)
Tanner II
breast bud forms, with small area of surrounding glandular tissue; areola begins to widen (10–11.5)
Tanner III
breast begins to become more elevated, and extends beyond the borders of the areola, which continues to widen but remains in contour with surrounding breast (11.5–13)
Tanner IV
increased breast sizing and elevation; areola and papilla form a secondary mound projecting from the contour of the surrounding breast (13–15)
Tanner V
breast reaches final adult size; areola returns to contour of the surrounding breast, with a projecting central papilla. (15+)

And here are the sketches Tanner developed to correspond with the different stages of breast development, and also photographs of the appropriate look of the different stages







It should be pointed out that the size of the breasts (measured mostly in cups) has nothing to do  with the tanner stage of the breasts, some women can have an A size cup, but are in their tanner 5 stage of development.

To be continued



Hugs
Linde

 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
So, what does this all mean for trans women?  We know that male and female breasts are made of the same tissue, and we also know that cases have been found, in which male persons were able to breastfeed their children after the mother could not do it, or was not present.

This means, if we introduce estrogen into the system of trans women, we can stimulate a similar breast growth as we find it with teenage females.  A look into the Standards of Care sections of the publication "Hormone Therapy in Adults", we can find the following information:
1) In MtF patients, the following changes are expected to occur: increased breast hemi circumference (up to 12 cm), enlarged nipple and areole,

2) Meyer et al. (1986) documented in a study of 60 MtF transgender persons followed prospectively that breast hemi circumference starts to increase by 2 to 3 months and reaches a plateau by 2 years.

3) Some clinicians believe progestins are necessary for full nipple development (Basson & Prior, 1998). However, a clinical comparison of feminization regimens with and without progestins found that the addition of progestins neither enhanced breast growth nor lowered serum levels of free testosterone (Meyer et al., 1986). . . .
Clinicians are encouraged to review the evidence for efficacy, safety, and cost for various progestin agents, particularly for use as a second line agent to enhance breast development, while avoiding progestins in patients at high cardiovascular risk.
There is no sufficient evidence to indicate that progestogens, such as progesterone, medroxyprogesterone acetate, or cyproterone acetate, enhance the extent of breast development in trans women.

4) As measured by hemi circumference, trans women’s breasts are typically the same size as cis women’s. However, because trans women typically have a greater shoulder width and a wider rib cage and torso, the breasts are “spread out” more and appear smaller.

5) Use of too large a dosage of estrogen, such as by unmonitored self-medicating, may “stunt” the development of breasts and lead to a smaller final size.

6) Spironolactone, an antiandrogen commonly used by trans women in the United States, has been associated with a greater likelihood of seeking breast augmentation. Other antiandrogens such as GnRH analogues, cyproterone acetate, and 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, are not associated with this outcome.

7) One of the desired effects of estrogen therapy is gradual growth of breast tissue. The latter effect is however highly variable, this is some patients will hardly develop some breast buds even after years of estrogen therapy while others have full breast development after 1–2 years.
Because the bony frame of the male chest differs greatly from the female, the resulting appearance of the thorax still differs from that of similarly developed natal females, often resulting in an appearance that is deemed unsatisfactory by patients, leading approximately 60% to request an augmentation mammoplasty, and satisfaction with breast implants tends to be high.

8 ) Data available shows that those people who self-medicate with estrogen are more likely to be referred for breast augmentation surgery than those who do not. The duration of estrogen exposure and the duration of estrogen use before attending the GIC (and any subsequent mammoplasties) resonate with the initial finding that self-medication is associated with greater need for breast augmentation. This is consistent with studies on puberty induction in natal girls in whom rapid estrogen exposure was found to lead to premature breast bud fusion and poor breast development. Those trans women who self-medicate with estrogen may be taking too large a dose at initiation to promote appropriate subsequent breast growth, resulting in a poorer final breast outcome. As breast hemi circumference was not measured in this study; it was not possible to determine whether individuals who underwent breast augmentation had objectively smaller breasts. It should be noted, however, that unlike the situation in natal women, breast hemi circumference measurements are limited in their ability to quantify the appearance of breast development in transwomen. The median breast development in transwomen is reported to be 19 cm, which is near natal female norms.

9) The use of spironolactone as an antiandrogen seemed also to be associated with an increased incidence of breast augmentation in transwomen. The other, more specific antiandrogens and GnRH analogs were not. Spironolactone is a mineralocorticoid receptor antagonist that acts as an androgen receptor partial antagonist as well as an estrogen receptor agonist. As such, in addition to blocking the androgen receptor (which is its primary purpose in this situation), it also has a significant estrogenic action at the doses used in transwomen. One can postulate that this could lead to an excessive estrogenic action and consequent poorer breast outcome by the same mechanism as that seen when patients self-medicate with estrogens. It is interesting that the other antiandrogens, cyproterone acetate and finasteride, do not appear to be used more frequently in those requiring breast augmentation compared with controls, suggesting that this is not a class effect of antiandrogens.


To be continued

Linde
 

Katie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
2,575
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
I made it to level 4! I wonder what boss I have to fight to get to level 5?
 

TonyaJanelle

Ubiquitous Moderator she/her/hers
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
2,047
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
Still stuck on 1 or 2 with 3 years of spiro. Guess I'm done.
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
TonyaJanelle said:
Still stuck on 1 or 2 with 3 years of spiro. Guess I'm done.
Tonya, as you can read in this documentation, spiro is the enemy of boob development.  Only spiro seems to show this problem, other blockers, including Finasteride (is even cheaper than spiro) seem not to display the negative effect for boob development.
And it seems to be very clear, too, that to high levels of estrogen are not good for boob development either.  Progesterone is still a very big question mark?



Hugs
Linde
 

Donica

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
1,295
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
It was over a year ago now that I was denied a BA because Kaiser limits us to Tanner Stage 1 to 2. At the time they claimed I was at Tanner Stage 3. Today, after being on injections for almost 6 months, I would say I have the East-West Asymmetrical breasts with little to no cleavage. My left breast is now roughly a small stage 5, and my right breast is roughly a small stage 4, with the cleavage area finally beginning to fill in.

But, keep in mind, this Tanner chart, nor does Kaiser, take into consideration our frame size. Even though my breast may look full, they are not proportionate to my frame size, which is the main reason I have difficulty with cleavage. In turn making it almost look like I have mosquito bites for breast. To be fare, in order for this Tanner Stage chart to be accurate, my breast would have to fill my chest like in those pictures. This would mean my breast, on a 40 inch chest, would be much larger than breast on a 36 inch chest.

Well, I'm a little happier today with my development than I was a year ago. I may even consider opting out of a BA, but there is going to have to be much more breast development before I make that decision. As it stands at the moment, I have to get a BA. I will further request that my endo take me off spiro and switch me over to one of the other GnRH analogues, cyproterone acetate, or 5-alpha reductase inhibitors.

Hugs!
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Donica, if you look at the photos of the Tanner stages, you can see that even stage 5 does not have a clearly defined cleavage.  Most women get that with push over bras, or with rather big boobs like my daughter has.  I am a clear Stage 5, and my chest looks pretty much like the photo shows.  I have a 38 D size boob measurement, but I have no defined cleavage either.  I think to get cleavage just by normal development, I need at least two more bra sizes.

So, let's be happy with what we have, there are many natal women who have less.


Hugs
Linde
 

Katie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
2,575
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
Cleavage seems to be hit or miss for all women. I'm an east-west type, so even though mine are fairly large for the length of time I have been on HRT, there's no cleavage to speak of. My wife also has no cleavage.
 

Donica

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
1,295
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
Linde said:
Donica, if you look at the photos of the Tanner stages, you can see that even stage 5 does not have a clearly defined cleavage.  Most women get that with push over bras, or with rather big boobs like my daughter has.  I am a clear Stage 5, and my chest looks pretty much like the photo shows.  I have a 38 D size boob measurement, but I have no defined cleavage either.  I think to get cleavage just by normal development, I need at least two more bra sizes.

So, let's be happy with what we have, there are many natal women who have less.


Hugs
Linde

Yes this is true Linde. Case in point, Sandra Bullock and Kate Hudson just to name two. They are each happy with how they look. I should probably be happy too but, as yet, I am not. To help ease my dysphoria, I need to be a true 40C size, which is a larger cup size than a 36C. I don't think that's too much to ask for (except for the risks and potential future BA revisions). It's a comfy C size cup but in my frame size.
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Donica said:
Yes this is true Linde. Case in point, Sandra Bullock and Kate Hudson just to name two. They are each happy with how they look. I should probably be happy too but, as yet, I am not. To help ease my dysphoria, I need to be a true 40C size, which is a larger cup size than a 36C. I don't think that's too much to ask for (except for the risks and potential future BA revisions). It's a comfy C size cup but in my frame size.
I have a 40 C or a 38 D, depending on bras, but that is not a real big boob size.  My avatar shows me without bra on, it gives you an idea of a real 40 C.  One definitely can see that I have boobs, but it is not overwhelming either.

But remember, I am working on those girls for almost 7 years now.  Being on E injections made me from 40 B into 40 C.

Hugs
Linde
 

Monica

Fight for self love!
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
2,254
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
So what affect does having a boob job have on Tanner stages?
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Moni said:
So what affect does having a boob job have on Tanner stages?
It really does not change the development, just puts more umpf to it.

They don't do much of that implanting prior to tanner 3 or 4, and after that it is mostly the areola changing.  Remember, size of boob is not a Tanner thing (you can have small bobs with Tanner 5, my sister in law had tiny things, but nursed 3 kids).  The difference between you and I, I used body fat to make them bigger, you used high tech stuff for the same effect.

Hugs
Linde
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Let’s talk about nipples and areolae for a little bit.  From the Tanner stages we know that women tend to have larger areolae (areolas) than men.  But what is larger?  I have seen female areolae that were hardly any larger than the average male ones, while others cover most of the frontal section of the breasts, and of course there are all kinds of areolae in between.
Experts reveal the eight different types of women's nipples - including protruding and 'puffy', and they can be small, big, inverted and even hairy nothing to worry about is what they tell us!
Doctors have warned women to look out for unexpected changes in the nipple position, explaining that inverted nipples are generally nothing to worry about - unless they have suddenly become that way.
Elsewhere they explained that while 90 per cent of bumps are usually non cancerous, women should visit the doctor if a new lump does appear and persist
So let’s take a look at the different kind of nipples/areolae we can normally see on female (trans women breasts are identical to the ones of natal women) breasts.

1. Protruding


The areola is the small pinkish, pigmented area which circles around the nipple.
When the nipple protrudes for the areola, if this is particularly noticeable, it can cause discomfort in your clothing and underwear choices depending on the severity of the nipples.

2. Big


Nipples come in different shapes and sizes, and there’s no such thing as ‘too big’ or ‘too small’ when it comes to your breasts. It is still completely normal to feel conscious, but size is nothing to worry about.'

3. Small


Equally to larger breasts, we may also feel as though our nipples are especially small and aren’t in proportion with the size or shape of our breasts.  However this is also very normal and nothing to worry about.

4. Hairy


All women (and men in particular!) have hair follicles on the areola and hair can vary in color, thickness, and texture for each.  Hair can be influenced by ethnicity, and sometimes pregnant women notice hairs darkening, thickening or growing and all of this is completely normal.
Hormonal changes like switching to a different method of estrogen delivery or adding progesterone or testosterone to the HRT, can also cause hair to grow around the nipples and in places you aren’t used to – again, all 100 per cent normal.'
All women (and men in particular!) have hair follicles on the areola and hair can vary in colour, thickness, and texture for each.
'Hair can be influenced by ethnicity, and sometimes pregnant women notice hairs darkening, thickening or growing and all of this is completely normal.
'Hormonal changes like starting a new contraceptive pill can also cause hair to grow around the nipples and in places you aren’t used to – again, all 100 per cent normal.'

5. Inverted



All women (and men in particular!) have hair follicles on the areola and hair can vary in colour, thickness, and texture for each.
'Hair can be influenced by ethnicity, and sometimes pregnant women notice hairs darkening, thickening or growing and all of this is completely normal.
'Hormonal changes like starting a new contraceptive pill can also cause hair to grow around the nipples and in places you aren’t used to – again, all 100 per cent normal.'

6. Flat



Flat nipples are characterized by their position on the areola, instead of appearing raised or outwards from the breast, they often look completely flat regardless of arousal or cold snaps of weather.
However this is also nothing to worry about.

7. Puffy



When the areola is raised and puffy this is usually due to excess tissue in the areola area which can often be hereditary or a result of hormonal changes during breast deelopment.  It is also a sign of raised hormone levels

8. Bumpy



Those tiny bumps on your areola are completely normal and can be found on all nipples, but some are more pronounced than others which can affect our confidence if we feel as though they are particularly noticeable.
However they are totally normal and nothing to worry about

Now that we have learned that any kind of areolae can be normal, let's take a look at what the most common size is.

In a 2009 study of 300 women’s nipples and areolas, results showed a mean areola diameter of 4 cm (`1,6” which is a little smaller than a golf ball), a mean nipple diameter of 1.3 cm (~1/2” similar to the width, not length, of an AA battery), and a mean nipple height of 0.9 cm (~3/8” the size of a lady bug).

We know now almost everything about nipples, let's look at what fun can be had with them.

Nipple piercings can bring positive feelings
In a study from 2008 of 362 people, 94 percent of men and 87 percent of the women polled about their nipple piercings said they’d do it again — and not because piercings were a kink thing. They liked the look of it. Less than half of the sample said it was related to sexual gratification from pain.

Nipple stimulation enhances sexual arousal
For most men and women, nipple play is rewarding foreplay. A study of 301 men and women (ages 17 to 29) found that nipple stimulation enhanced sexual arousal in 82 percent of women and 52 percent of men.
While only 7 to 8 percent said it decreased their arousal, it’s always a good idea to ask before assuming.

Nerves to the breast and nipple differ in men and women
Researchers in 1996 dissected cadavers to study the nerve supply to the nipple and areola. They found that the nerves spread out more widely in women than men.

Breast surgery can affect nipple sensitivity
Breast augmentation is an extremely popular surgery, with a 37 percent increase from 2000 to 2016. The surgery does bear risks of sensation loss.  One study from 2011 found that 75 percent of women surveyed had changes in sensation after the surgery, while 62 percent experienced pain from being touched.

You should have bumps around your nipples
They’re called the Montgomery glands, although the scientific name is the areolar glands. These glands produce a secretion called lipoid fluid to help keep the entire areola and nipple area more lubricated and comfortable

Nipples attract women, just like they attract men
A University of Nebraska study found that women and men follow similar eye patterns when looking at women: They quickly look at breasts and “sexualized parts” before moving on to other areas of the body.
So now you know: When it comes to nipples, there’s a massive range — from bumps to size and even amount! A nipple’s worth isn’t in how much it lactates, but in how you care and treat it because there’s no one version of “normal.” But as with any other part of your body, if you’re ever concerned about something your nipples are doing (or not doing), your best bet is to see a doctor.

And the last sentence brings us to the next chapter, Breast Self Examination

To be continued
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
At some point most trans women have a breast long enough that it requires self examination.  I used to teach this to young women for a while, and I would like to chair with you, what I taught to other women.
I do this exam several times a week, and this way my fingers get some kind of “memory” to recognize what is normal and what is not.

Begin with a visual examination of your breasts

Sit or stand shirtless and bra-less in front of a mirror with your arms at your sides. To inspect your breasts visually, do the following:
    • Face forward and look for puckering, dimpling, or changes in size, shape or symmetry.
    • Check to see if your nipples are turned in (inverted).
    • Inspect your breasts with your hands pressed down on your hips.
    • Inspect your breasts with your arms raised overhead and the palms of your hands pressed together.
    • Lift your breasts to see if ridges along the bottom are symmetrical.

Next, use your hands to examine your breasts
Common ways to perform the manual part of the breast exam include:
    • Lying down.
      Choose a bed or other flat surface to lie down on your back. When lying down, breast tissue spreads out, making it thinner and easier to feel.
    • In the shower.
      Lather your fingers and breasts with soap to help your fingers glide more smoothly over your skin.


Breast Self-Exam

When examining your breasts, some general tips to keep in mind include:

Use the pads of your fingers. Use the pads, not the very tips, of your three middle fingers for the exam. If you have difficulty feeling with your finger pads, use another part of your hand that is more sensitive, such as your palm or the backs of your fingers.

Use different pressure levels. Your goal is to feel different depths of the breast by using different levels of pressure to feel all the breast tissue. Use light pressure to feel the tissue closest to the skin, medium pressure to feel a little deeper, and firm pressure to feel the tissue closest to the chest and ribs. Be sure to use each pressure level before moving on to the next spot. If you're not sure how hard to press, talk with your doctor or nurse.

Take your time. Don't rush. It may take several minutes to carefully examine your breasts.

Follow a pattern. Use a methodical technique to ensure you examine your entire breast. For instance, imagine the face of a clock over your breast or the slices of a pie. Begin near your collarbone and examine that section, moving your fingers toward your nipple. Then move your fingers to the next section.

Results

What's normal
Many women find lumps or changes in their breasts, since some of these are normal changes that occur at various points in the menstrual cycles. Finding a change or lump in your breast is not a reason to panic. Breasts often feel different in different places. A firm ridge along the bottom of each breast is normal, for instance. The look and feel of your breasts will change as you age.

When to contact your doctor
Make an appointment with your doctor if you notice:

A hard lump or knot near your underarm

Changes in the way your breasts look or feel, including thickening or prominent fullness that is different from the surrounding tissue

Dimples, puckers, bulges or ridges on the skin of your breast

A recent change in a nipple to become pushed in (inverted) instead of sticking out

Redness, warmth, swelling or pain

Itching, scales, sores or rashes

Bloody nipple discharge

Your doctor may recommend additional tests and procedures to investigate breast changes, including a clinical breast exam, mammogram and ultrasound.


Now that we have all the clinical stuff behind us, we will talk about agony, pure agony in the next chapter.


About bras and how to find the right one.


To be continued

Hugs
Linde
 

Deleted

Hetero trans woman
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
217
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Female
In some of the movies my husband and I watch, they do show topless women. I find it striking how many of them have smaller boobs than I do. I thought Hollyweird would choose actresses and extras with a bit more up top.

Even after Linde's proclamations that natal women have larger nipples and areolas, I found that to be mostly untrue by what I have seen on screen. I highly doubt most of those women just so happen to be trans.

For one, I happen to be my own biggest critic. I may wear 36C size bras, but my boobs look small to me. My nipples look small. My areolas look small. My chest is done developing. At least it has the athletic shape, and is far from sagging. As for cleavage, forget about it. The pressure required to force the girls together for that would hurt like hell after a while.
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Sarah, I wear 38 D/40 C, an if I would try to push the babies together to form a nice cleavage, I would be hurting as bad as you would.  But if you look at a lot of models one can see in pictures, any of them would have a hard time to do this cleavage thing.

If I gather all my under arm fat, and push it to the front, and wear an iron clad bra, I might be able to get something one could consider to be a cleavage, but for what?

We have to live with the fact that we have a wide chest, and our boobs are sitting a little further apart.
Amber wants to give me all the cute bras she used to wear, and that have cups that fit me, but the cups are that close together that the sides of the bras sit on my nippls!


Hugs
Linde
 

Linde

Adminstrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
4,388
Gender Pronouns
She, Her, Hers, Herself
Gender Identity
Intersex
Oh dear those darn bras, they never fit right, and if one found one that does, they hurt as if they try to kill us!

Natal women have found that out long ago, now it is our time to learn about this!  In fact, almost 80 percent of women are still wearing ill-fitting bras.
Here is my story, determined to find the right fit, after I had some not so good experiences with bras I ordered online, and after I had gathered enough stamina to do it, I headed straight to my local Victoria’s Secret store. From looking in to bra fitment guides on the net I thought I knew what to expect. At most, I assumed I'd only go up or down one bra size. But I went in as a size 42 A and left as a size 38C !

How to find a bra that fits you
Before you give up on bras or resign yourself to discomfort, consider getting a professional bra fitting. My fitting led me away from uncomfortable bras and into a size that fit pretty well. Here are four tips for finding your fit.
While science has started using 3-D scanners to help shape bras and underwire these days, it’s not accessible to everyone. If you’re not ready for a professional bra fitting but still want to make sure you're wearing the right bra size, grab a tape measure (the fabric kind, trust me!). Then use this handy calculator to walk you through a bra fitting at home. 
Note:  Unless most calculators,  this calculator can be used for persons who were assigned either AFAB or  AMAB

https://www.abrathatfits.org/calculator.php

Many women have. A 2008 survey conducted by bra manufacturer Triumph and published in the journal Chiropractic & Osteopathy found that the majority of women (80 percent!) were wearing bras that were the wrong size. Of those women, 70 percent of them wore bras that were too small, while 10 percent wore bras that were too large.
A little time ago, a study was conducted, to determine if wrong bras could result in any health problems.  I want to share this study with you:

Association between suitability of bra fit and pectoral girdle myalgia
Bra cup size has been shown to be associated with shoulder–neck pain, or pectoral girdle myalgia (PGM), in women. The aim of this study was to determine the prevalence of PGM in women and investigate the association of PGM with the congruence of measured vs reported bra size.
Methods:
A total of 291 females aged 15–50 years completed a 31-item, closed-ended questionnaire, which collected information on biodata, prevalence of PGM, and bra use. Bra size was recorded as reported by the participants and as measured by one of the investigators. A chi-squared test was used to determine the association between age, cup size, congruence of measured vs reported bra size, and occurrence of PGM.

Results:

The 12-month prevalence of PGM was 44% (n=122). Having tightly pulled straps was the factor most commonly reported to worsen PGM (n=75, 58.9%). Removing the bra was the factor most commonly reported to relieve pain (n=94, 73.4%). Of the 252 respondents (86.6%) who claimed to know their bra size, only 63 (25%) were correct when their bra size was measured. Self-selection was the most common method for determining bra size (n=224, 77.3%). There was no association between age, cup size, congruence of measured vs reported bra size, and occurrence of PGM (p>0.05).

Conclusions:
PGM was found to be common among the respondents. The fact that the size of bra worn was largely dependent on self-selection might have been responsible for the high number of respondents wearing wrong-sized bras. Working with the arms elevated had a significant association with the development of PGM (χ2=4.12; p=0.040), a finding that requires further exploration.

These conclusions are not surprising, considering how difficult it can be to find attractive (or any!) options in larger bra sizes. While Victoria's Secret carries bra sizes up to a 40DDD in a reasonable number of styles and colors, this hasn't always been the case. In fact, it’s not even enough. Many women need bands larger than 40 inches under the breast. Some department stores still have even fewer options to choose from once you go above a 36D, although most American women can find bras with cup sizes ranging from A to G, according to the New York Times. (https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/fashion/09bra.html )

The last thing one wants to discover during once fitting is that once bra size is larger than what the store carried. That was the case for me, nothing at all to fulfill my dreams of a sexy bra.  So much for all of the adorable styles and patterns that filled the rest of the store.

There’s no holy grail to cup sizes
When it comes to bra sizes, most women still buy into the idea that bigger is better — at least where the cup size is concerned. Yet conversely, many women, trans women included, shy away from larger band sizes. What we don't often realize is that cup sizes don't equal the size of your breasts. They refer to the difference between the size of your breasts and your rib cage.

BAND SIZE

The band size is measured numerically, e.g.., 30, 32, and 34…etc. and refers to the size of the rib cage.

CUP SIZE
The cup size is measured alphabetically, e.g., A, B, C, D, DD, E, F… etc. and refers to the size of the breasts in relation to the rib cage, i.e. how much bigger the breasts are than the rib cage.

BRA SISTER SIZES
Bra sizes that are the same in volume are often referred to as “sister sizes”. The grey cells in the table below demonstrate how the sizes diagonally adjacent from the top right to the bottom left are the same in breast volume i.e. the same volume of breast tissue spread across different size rib cages (band sizes).
Sister sizes demonstrate that cup size doesn’t indicate breast size but instead the difference between the breasts and rib cage. If someones rib cage gets larger but their breasts stay the same, they’ll need a larger band and a smaller cup, demonstrating that the difference between their breasts and rib cage has decreased. For example, if someone usually wears a 26H bra and gains weight around just their middle and not their breasts they may need a 28GG instead; the same volume as a 26H but on a larger rib cage.
Bra sizes can be confusing and so if you try on a bra that fits your breasts very well but doesn’t fit in the band then simply remember that:
    • If you need a smaller band go up in the cup
    • If you need a larger band go down in the cup



This shows clearly that given the cup size alone, when describing the size of ones bust, means nothing.  The cup size has a meaning only, if given with the corresponding band size.

With other words, someone with a 34C still has smaller cups than a 36C. Going up a band size can provide just the right fit for the many women whose cups runneth over but find themselves swimming in the next cup size up.

Some women know they're wearing the wrong bra size but continue wearing it anyway. A study in the journal Ergonomics has shown that women with larger breasts tend to have an even larger error when choosing bra size. (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140139.2016.1176258 }

Wearing the wrong bra size can produce breast pain and bra irritation. In a study on women horse riders (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640414.2016.1210818 ) and the impact of their bras, 40 percent reported breast pain and 59 percent reported at least one bra issue. But don't worry: It's a myth that ill-fitting bras cause breast cancer. (https://www.healthline.com/health/breast-cancer/management-and-tips/dozen-myths-you-should-ignore-about-breast-cancer )

Takeaway
Get a professional bra fitting or use a bra size calculator (like the one in the link above) to find your perfect fit. Don't ignore the telltale signs that you're wearing the wrong bra size. Get educated about bra fit since having the right supportive bra is important, especially during exercise.

Finally, below are international size comparison tables for bandwidth and cup sizes





I hope you enjoyed this article, and learned a little bit about your boobs, and boobs in general.



Hugs
Linde
 
En Femme 728 x 90
Top Bottom