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Trans VS. Drag... Fight! Kidding just discuss please!

Madrhode

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So this has been discussed I am sure in many places and so I wanted to actually have this discussion.

Trans hating drag and drag loving Trans. debate.

So my topic is why we should not despise or not like individuals that do drag based on society (Perpetrators attitude).
When I was a young doe, I was against drag queens because like many I took it as insulting, and discrediting to who I was as a transwoman. Then low and be hold I met a drag queen ( Georgia Bush) and we became really good friends and my perspective has really flipped. I have about six drag queen and one king as friends and I love them dearly. We met in the awkward young coming out time that I was trying my hand at comedy in the bar scene in houston and being a trans flamboyant woman. She was amazing at her performances. I mean well not spectacular but she had been doing drag eight years. She thought at first I was trying to be a drag queen, but when I told her I was trans she understood. We first met back stage and hit it off and we went to a table. I told her that she was making me awkward as I did not want to be seen as a drag queen. She looked at me and gave me the best advice ever. She said 'Honey there are going to be a lot of people thinking a lot of things about you, even when transitioning, but fuck them. Its going to be hard, but wouldnt you rather have fun doing it? I was like you know you are right. We hung out of an on the next year and I learned much more about make up and tucking and damn just being a woman from a man then I did from any woman in my life. she told me that she got the way I felt and that for her drag was just another expression of her self she said the clothes and make up are her canvas and paint brushes, her clay and potters wheel, a drummer and his drums. She liked performing and it also empowered her to be better. The blaming of drag performers because someone sees them as a man in a dress overly done up is the problem with that persons views no her. It is the same reason we shouldnt tell a woman to cover up as that leads to assault. or harassments. and I wouldn't shame a woman in a bikini so why shame a drag performer in one, but that is what people do. Drag performers have led the way. Although distasteful in some ways if it was not for rupal's drag race, carmen carrera would not have a platform, it and many others would not be visible. I know Rupaul is himself stuck some backwards, but even he has made some changes like shemail ad erasing it from the show. Change happens but only if you let it or Alyssa Edwards show on netflix of her dance school. I am so glad to see this. It justbegins to show we are all human. I do not want to be a man in a dress and I try my hardest not to and honestly I am not, but I also do no fault those that love to perform as who they are. we all strive to be our truselves, but get mad at those drag performers being their true selves. Yes I understand there are still asshole gay men that are against drag but so are terfs and many others, we just have to accept all nomatter there beauty expression. Ok so let me have it I welcome the feed back comments and opinions of everyone else.
 

Monica

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Maddy, I don't hate drag or drag performers. I don't hate that they have a good time or joke or really anything they want to do. I have a problem with society, not them. I have a real bone to pick with us being portrayed as a joke, a clown, a psycho, or a freak. Oh yes, then there are the other choices, sick and evil. I am a bit uncomfortable with drag only because in a world where there is so little true info on trans people and so much misinformation, I don't want to be assumed to be into drag. I don't want that to be the face of trans people in general. I don't want to diminish what they do or look down on them, I just want a more realistic portrayal of trans people. For a group that tends to want to just go about their business, be low profile, that is a hard thing to have happen. Sometimes the umbrella term works and sometimes it is not appropriate. I hope you don't see this as a fight. I'm a lover in training, not a fighter! :)
 

TonyaJanelle

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I think one could make the case that drag is akin to blackface. I'm sure there was an art to that also, but whats the goal and at what cost?

And based on comments directed at @NicoleT and I heard from my father, a large portion of the population views trans women as the same thing as drag queens.
 

Monica

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I think one could make the case that drag is akin to blackface.
I don't think I'd make that comparison myself Tonya. A drag performer gets pleasure from dressing as a woman. Okay, so do crossdressers! Both, in my opinion are legitimate. There are comedy skits about cis people too. The difference is everyone sees the legitimacy of cis people. The education about us is sorely lacking and our legitimacy is not seen as it should be.
 

Katie

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I recently saw a really good post by a pair of drag queen twin performers (twin siblings who do drag). They made it very clear that drag for them is a performance, akin to cosplay. The performance ends when the clothes come off. They are both cisgender men and have no experience with gender dysphoria nor any desire to live full time as a woman. For transgender people, we make our presentation changes (and sometimes medical changes) permanently. For example, I don't stop being a woman at the end of the day. Those are the differences between drag performers and transgender people.
 

TonyaJanelle

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I don't think I'd make that comparison myself Tonya. A drag performer gets pleasure from dressing as a woman. Okay, so do crossdressers! Both, in my opinion are legitimate. There are comedy skits about cis people too. The difference is everyone sees the legitimacy of cis people. The education about us is sorely lacking and our legitimacy is not seen as it should be.
A performer doing blackface most likely enjoyed their performance also as performers enjoy performing. The more I think about drag the less I like about it.

So the question is what is drag? A parody? Of what? Women? Then definitely not ok. Gay stereotypes? Since its mostly gay men doing it, then ok. Everyone is allowed to (and maybe should) make fun of themselves.

Either way though, there is the "man in a dress" thing that unfairly gets stuck on trans women.
 

OzGirl

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Seriously, this all comes back to the public perception that trans people want to dress as the opposite sex to get jollies. The sooner we can get the public educated that we are are being treated for a medical condition, the sooner we will be able to be seen as different to drag and crossdressers.

Hugs,

Allie
 

Monica

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Oh Maddy, you bad girl, you started this then stepped away. ;)In a perfect world, I don't have a problem with drag. In the present situation, it really doesn't help trans people. People see the ridiculousness, the flamboyance and then attach it to us. If that causes people to reject us, that's a problem. I wish there was education in schools. Right after they start teaching civics again.
 

Madrhode

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I am back I had to get the lady nuggets zapped and typing every two minutes and getting zapped then type then zap seemed too complicated.
Again we have to distinguish between the fact that it is society that needs to change not the performers. I do not see a problem with black face as it relates to a performance (Robert Downey Jr. Tropic thunder), I see a problem when it degrades a person aka where they made black people look like idiots and they are not. I get that it is quite insulting because of everyones beliefs that it allows for men in dresses, but what about women in tuxes? Is that degrading? Straight men do drag, some girls do drag and that is why I am accepting of it. Now if a drag performer was saying they were modeling a transwoman trying to pass a a woman I would have a problem but bending stereotypes to me in a comedic role/performance is not a problem. When we seperate that transwomen are medically difernt and it isnt a show then we see the performance of drag. You can talk about the degrading of women, whic is true but it is also a testament to the abilities of women. If more cismen put on dresses the world would be a better place I think.
 

Linde

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I don't care if drag queens see their stuuf as performance and enjoy it. What is important to me is how the public sees them! The public sees them as guys who dress up and try to make fun of non natal women.
And that os us. The less educated public sees us as a joke, because drag made us into a joke.

I did not suffer most of my life, and currently have substantial pain, to be the center piece of a joke.

Tat is the reason that I dislike drag and the performers. They can be as nice as can be, as long as they like to use me as the centerpiece of their jokes, they are icky people in my eyes, similar to the ever so nice Trump voters.

Hugs
Linde
 

Madrhode

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Are they though Linde I mean, I have yet to see a drag queen say they were mirroring a transwoman. I mean to me their art points out how crazy the standards for beauty and appearance are for women placed by society, after all clothes have no gender. So if they are dressing that way is it any different then coming out in a trex costume and singing or elvis? I have never felt as a target from drag queens, I have from trump supporters. That said I understand this, it is a fine line I sometimes think this to when someone compares me to a drag queen but then I remember it isnt the drag queens fault the gas station worker is an idiot.
 

Linde

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I don't really care what the drag queen feels or wants. They make fun about women like me, and the public sees me as some version of a circus clown.
The queens seem not to comprehend that, because they do their stuff for fun. I don't, I thought I finally was not the center of redicule anymore, which I was most of my life trying to look manly with my mostle female phenotype.
I thought, being a woman would take care of it, my body and gender finally matched each other. But was I wrong, just some guys find it to be fun to make a clown of me, and they don't even care.

Hugs
Linde
 

KathyLauren

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I don't hate drag queens. An actor friend of mine is a compulsive performer. He can't NOT be on a stage somewhere, and one of his characters is a drag character. He is very good at it.

However, I dislike drag. Regardless of the performer's intentions, the audience sees it as a parody of ... us. Without knowing anything about trans people, the audience is smiling and nodding and thinking, "Yeah, right, exactly!" ... about us.

If trans people were generally accepted in society, drag would be harmless fun. But there are too many people who do not accept us, and drag performances reinforce their non-acceptance. I find that aspect of it offensive.
 

Monica

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If trans people were generally accepted in society, drag would be harmless fun. But there are too many people who do not accept us, and drag performances reinforce their non-acceptance.
This is kind of me in a nutshell. I am proud of us talking about it and not getting upset doing it. It's a very individual thing, this subject. I'm also thankful that we can have this discussion here. Another forum we know would have censored most of these comments. Three cheers for the staff for treating folks like adults.
 

magic_michelle

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I think one could make the case that drag is akin to blackface. I'm sure there was an art to that also, but whats the goal and at what cost?

And based on comments directed at @NicoleT and I heard from my father, a large portion of the population views trans women as the same thing as drag queens.
Could not agree more. Drag is something done for fun, for shits and giggles, being trans is not. It is who we are and this undermines our very identity as far as I am concerned. Not a fan period. I do not think it is okay to engage in any activity that you personally enjoy when it is so damaging to people who have to live a life that is then made illegitimate by someone's recreation pastimes. I am not saying that it should be stopped just that I find it offensive and do not like it and I think the comparison to black face is totally on point. Many slurs and misconceptions that exist about trans women primarily exist because of drag and it actively harms our community and to think otherwise is just ignorant. To see men dressing up as caricatures of women to me feels like mockery and not something that needs to happen. Cross dressing is different altogether as it is not done as a performance but drag projects an image that is then applied to transgender women who are then targeted because they do not get out of their clothes and makeup after the show has ended and then go about their day as men, we have to live like this and drag actively makes this more difficult.
 
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