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Sexual orientation change (for some) from transition

a Birdie on a Wire

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So, how did this happen? I have my answer. Anyone, for the sake of spirited conversation want to offer an explanation for that before I offer mine?

Was internal homophobia the only reason I was not attracted to men before?

With kindness,
Terri

Yes. That’s pretty much it.
What Terri said.
This is why it happened.

Sexual orientation doesn’t change after taking titty skittles for a while. The human mind is amazingly capable of suppressing, hiding, cloaking, sprinkling inviso dust all over ideas that we feel will harm us emotionally or physically.

Turning into girl lifted the veil of your attraction to dudes (and all that nasty boy-smell) and gave you license to be... well, in a word.

Straight.

Tah dahhhh!
*Wren bows to the crowd. Exits stage left*
 

TonyaJanelle

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Hi girl! Yeah, I vacillate between having no desire to participate in transgender forums to having a need for dialogue. The COVID isolation has been brutal, and Reddit really sucks much of the time, so here I be.

With kindness and affection,

Terri
Whatever the reason its nice to see you jumping in and hope to see you around more often. Looking forward to hearing of your experience with Dr Powers.
 

TonyaJanelle

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So, how did this happen? I have my answer. Anyone, for the sake of spirited conversation want to offer an explanation for that before I offer mine?
@KimOct was right and you were dropped on your head?
Yes. That’s pretty much it.
What Terri said.
This is why it happened.
Unless she's had a major revelation in this regard, this won't be the answer @Moni gives us.

Pheromones?
 

Michelle_P

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I was interviewed for an article on unexpected shifts or discoveries in gender orientation for folks coming out after age 30. I had a few thoughts on the topic that I expressed in the interview, and I thought I would get them in writing for our members.

What I Wish I Knew Before Figuring Out I Was Queer At 30

I believe my shift in orientation, fundamentally becoming open to a larger range of partners, was due more to my recognizing and breaking down social taboos on orientation than any innate shift from hormone replacement therapy (HRT) or transition-related surgeries.

Our gender orientation, sexual and romantic, is built in layers. There is a biological primitive, a bit of our brains wired to recognize other people as possible mates or competitors. This sets the core of our sexual orientation. We see others and this bit of our brain identifies those who might be possible mates or sexual partners, based on what can be perceived. It tends to be a pretty broad sort of classification filter, and there are correlations such that it appears to be set in fetal development during the third trimester by the testosterone level the developing brain is exposed to.

In my case, the filter seems to favor femme appearance or feminine attributes as a possible mate.

Our culture insists on certain behaviors as being acceptable. Since this body was assigned male at birth, this culture had insisted that while growing up and presenting as male, that I only select persons with a strongly femme appearance as a potential mate. That more or less matches my brain’s setting, so that was OK. I accepted the cultural conditioning and assumed that was just how I was.

Ah, but then I came to accept my true nature, and violated cultural taboo by coming out and transitioning. It turns out that breaking one taboo and surviving makes it easier to break other taboos.

Post-transition I, as a woman attracted to women, identified my orientation as a lesbian. (Cis-lesbian readers, I understand how you may feel about this. Just read on, please. This is just my orientation, not culture!)

I was in a transgender person support group meeting, and sitting next to me was a man, with a lovely red-orange beard and reddish leg hair. They were very kind and open, and I liked them. In fact, I found myself fantasizing about them. Now, where was THIS coming from?

After considerable introspection and discussion with some very good sexuality specialists, I realized that the people I am attracted to have not actually identified their genitalia to me, and that the women I did attractive are actually just a subset of persons with some strongly feminine aspects that I admire. That is I am attracted to persons with some strongly femme attribute to their presentation, and not to some particular set of genitalia.

I rather flippantly describe my orientation now as lesbian with a 30% chance of queer, or more formally, sapphic demisexual queer favoring femme presentation.

This change was driven by my being more open to questioning cultural norms, and I believe it was not affected by my HRT or surgery, beyond those resulting from my initially challenging and violating cultural norms.
 

OzGirl

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I have never had a sexual attraction to another person. I desperately wanted babies so I married a woman, who my mother set me up with as I never dated. I was able to have sex to create 2 wonderful babies, but wasn’t interested after they were born. I remarried nearly 20 years later to a woman who had been my best friend for over a decade, and she taught me to enjoy sex for the first time. I never initiated, and was affected by significant guilt afterwards.

So I had been able to have sex with women (2) but sex itself wasn’t the driver.I also enjoyed being penetrated, but I quickly realised that was because it made me feel like a woman. There is a mechanical component to sex where attraction doesn’t play a part.

I’ve thought for a long whle about sexual attraction, and come to believe it is more fluid than most think. I knew a long term prisoner who admitted to me that he was only into women until his first long stint in jail. He had high libido, so came to accept sex with men. Over the decades he was released, had sex with women, and re offended to go back to jail. He admitted to me that he preferred life in jail. How many priests would be peadopiles if they weren’t forced to be celebate?

I believe sexual preference is a function of our circumstance, and as circumstances change so can sexual prefrence. A sort of positive reinforcement?

This is a great, thought provoking thread @Moni!!!

Hugs.

Allie
 
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Melanierose

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Ok now I know--my sexuality must have been asleep for a while. That would explain why ever since I started my transition I only think of guys...sexually speaking. Women are still the most beautiful, sexiest people in my opinion, but when I look at them I'm not thinking about sleeping with them...I'm wishing I looked like them.

I'm jealous that some big, strong guy looks at them and wants them. I want guys to look at me the same way, but I know realistically that's probably not gonna happen...unless I pay for it. Which I will probably do after my surgery. lol
Yes. At 35 I stopped feeling guilty. Found a club with TVs mostly. It took 2 years for me to realise having started chipping the facade off that I fancied men. Then it was a succession of boyfriends who taught me a lot. I was always a woman inside. But this realisation wasn’t hrt result as was only till I was 59 that I started hr. I am happily married to a man now (5years met 9 years ago ) so it’s possible. Dream girl and it will come true
 

pamelatransuk

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Katie, Allie, Kathy and I all profess to be (mainly) asexual and I strongly suspect the Transgender population has a much higher segment of asexual people than the population as a whole.

I am also comfortable as asexual. Of course I have wondered many times over the years: Had I been born cis instead of trans, would I still have been asexual? I honestly don't know but quite possibly yes asexual anyway.

Hugs

Pamela xx

I think most cis-women can readily de-emphasize sex in their lives. It's not asexuality, it's the completeness of sexuality that women are born with. Men are an option, not a need, unless you want to be pregnant. Women are driven more by emotional needs.

With kindness,

Terri
Thank you Terri. I agree absolutely with your point above.

Also I am delighted you have found such happiness with your boyfriend and wish you both further happiness.

Hugs

Pamela xx
 

Linde

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Wow, and here I sit, wothout balls for quite some time now, and full of that female type of hormone stuff, along with my XX Chromosomes, and a body that never masculinized.
It is hard to be much closer to a cis woman without being born a natal woman. And I was hoping very much, I would turn out hetero once changed. But I did not happen, I am still as lesbian as they come. Now that I have some libido back, thanks to my testosterone pills, I am still not interested in guys. I know that it is way easier to please a guy than a lesbian woman, but I have no idea what to do to be interested in guys. My girlfriends try every possible thing to get me to like guys, but nothing seems to work, I am just on old lesbian, and recon I will be that for the rest of my life.

Hugs
Linde
 

Monica

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I have never had a sexual attraction to another person. I desperately wanted babies so I married a woman, who my mother set me up with as I never dated. I was able to have sex to create 2 wonderful babies, but wasn’t interested after they were born. I remarried nearly 20 years later to a woman who had been my best friend for over a decade, and she taught me to enjoy sex for the first time. I never initiated, and was affected by significant guilt afterwards.

So I had been able to have sex with women (2) but sex itself wasn’t the driver.I also enjoyed being penetrated, but I quickly realised that was because it made me feel like a woman. There is a mechanical component to sex where attraction doesn’t play a part.

I’ve thought for a long whle about sexual attraction, and come to believe it is more fluid than most think. I knew a long term prisoner who admitted to me that he was only into women until his first long stint in jail. He had high libido, so came to accept sex with men. Over the decades he was released, had sex with women, and re offended to go back to jail. he admitted to me that he preferred life in jail. How many priests would be peadopiles if they weren’t forced to be celebate?

I believe sexual preference is a function of our circumstance, and as circumstances change so can sexual prefrence. A sort od positive reinforcement?

This is a great, thought provoking thread @Moni!!!

Hugs.

Allie
Allie, the topic is a crowd pleaser, no doubt. Actually, many times it descends into hard feelings. I'm hoping that is not the case here. The key is to try to respectfully listen to others. I'm optimistic as we have such a good group here. I made a lighthearted comment about so many asexual people liking this subject. It is perhaps because of some serious introspection on their part about their own sexual adventures. Seems logical! I would not see myself being totally understanding of why someone is asexual. I don't understand why Linde is so frustrated with continuing to like women and not men. (I do a little Linde. lol) But I respect the experience of those who are different from me. I will not try to invalidate your experiences. I hope you will respect my highly personal experience as well.

Each person's journey is different. Wren's estimation and to some extent, Terri's thoughts, seem to indicate transphobia being at the root of a change in orientation. I don't know if they would say it's only a 'perceived' change. I think Allie came closest to my experience with the flexibility idea. I have heard estimates of 30% of transitioners change orientation. I can't say, but I've seen many others who have. I will not deny a certain amount of homophobia in my life. I'm certain some of it is still with me. I feel it some when using my voice, not wanting to sound like a gay guy. I do think that there must be some flexibility in this area of attraction for some who do change orientation. The problem is it just doesn't fit with my experience, this homophobic explanation. What does fit is the importance of seeing the word from a different perspective. Neither HRT or surgeries alone caused me to shift my orientation. They were certainly a part of things. Socially transitioning, in my case, had a bigger affect. As I started to live my life as a woman, I noticed after a bit, that I seemed to change how I perceived men. I was no longer on that same side of the fence as they were. I had a distance there that wasn't there before, and I found myself not understanding how guys think. Weird, right? But this is what I felt. I also started noticing I was wanting their attention. I was seeing the world from a different perspective is the best way to describe it. I will mention something funny about getting implant surgery. Before that surgery, women's boobs were a big turn on for me. It was a focus, shall I say! After I got my boobs, I didn't give a crap about another woman's boobs. Still, don't, sorry Nicole! I'm sure part of my turn on was jealousy. Doesn't mean it wasn't a big turn for me as a guy earlier. GCS also has it's affect. What would I do with a woman now? Hell I don't know. It changes things too. I'm just saying, it is not a simple answer where you can point to a single trigger. I highlighted negative reinforcement in my last post. No, it won't change someone's orientation. But what about positive reinforcers? For someone with a bit of flexibility to start with, perhaps positive reinforcers could bring about a change. Now, one might say, "Well that's just a trans woman seeking validation from a guy!" Hmmmm, isn't that what cis straight women do?

I'll cut it off here! (Don't say it!) At any rate, Maisie loves me and agrees with everything I say! "Here Maise, here's some cheese!"
 

Confused

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I have seen no change at all in my sexual orientation, I am still attracted to women as I have been every since I started high school and have no interest in men either romantically or sexually but I have noticed one change. I could never see what made attractive men attractive prior to commencing HRT. At all. Whilst I still am not attracted to men I do now see what it is that makes attractive men attractive, I'm just not interested in it myself.

For me, the interests I had in a heterosexual relationship while living as a man was tied directly to my denial. I was so afraid of admitting to myself that I was transgender that I sought out all kinds of things (including heterosexual relationship) to try to find a way to make the guy thing work. Once I came out and started HRT, I felt so much better and my feelings about myself had become a lot more positive. As that happened, I lost interest in sexual stuff. Part of that may have been reduced libido from HRT, but I know for certain that at least some of it was due to feeling comfortable with who and what I am and not feeling the need for sex to validate my identity.

I think most cis-women can readily de-emphasize sex in their lives. It's not asexuality, it's the completeness of sexuality that women are born with. Men are an option, not a need, unless you want to be pregnant. Women are driven more by emotional needs.

With kindness,

Terri

Moni, I have struggled with how to answer this one. In many ways I am like Katie. I was asexual as a teenager with hormones in overdrive. I tried to be a man, but at the same time I hated it and wanted to die. I didn't have any idea what transgender was back then and it seemed like there was only one choice available for me. I guess you could say I was in denial, but I thought I had some kind of mental defect. When I married my wife we didn't have sex for awhile. Once we did, I felt a deep connection and considered my self a heterosexual male. I enjoyed sex as a man. Still, there were times I envied my wife and I had one spell that lasted for months where I really wanted to trade places. I had no clue why and choked it down until it seemed to dissipated some.

I still have no idea what estrogen will do to me, but having no testosterone seems to have caused me to be somewhat asexual again. As Katie said, that may be in part due to libido, but I believe it is more than that. As Michele stated, I am attracted to women only, but the desire for anything sexual is almost gone. I guess I will find out in a few months what GCS will do to me and then not much later I will experience estrogen. I guess at this point I haven't crossed the fence and can't say what those 2 events will bring. I don't think it could make me be attracted to men, but not long ago I didn't think I would be where I am now either. My small experience makes me think Terry is correct about women being driven by emotional needs.

Hugs, Mike
 

Monica

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Thanks for sharing this Mike. I don't think you will suddenly find a desire for fuzzy hockey players. I see Terri's point. I think it is more an emphasis than a rule. There is a great deal of variability with women and I think the idea that sex isn't important to them might come as a surprise to many. Again, there are no simple answers to any of this stuff.
 

Linde

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Moni, my wish to be hetero stems from my desire to be finally just "normal". I was different for all of my life, I was living at the edge of society all tne time. Now that I am a womanwho can pass as cis, I am still an outsider as being a homosexual.
And all my transition, HRT, life as a woman ( I think we are fulltime for a similar time), and no male parts on my body have done anything to change my sexual orientation.
I pretty much have resigned to the fact that I am 100% lesbian. I like women a lot, and have non of the negative feelings towards romce with them as I have with men. Taking my chromosomes into consideration, I was born as a homosexual, and will never change to be a homosexual. Whether I like it or not.

I always was very boob oriented , and I am still interested in boobs. But this is less sexual interested, but more of some kind competitve reaction.
I am one of the lucky very late blooming women, who has pretty decent size homegrown boobs (size 38 D /40 C, and still growing). I try to compare mine to those of other, mostly younger, women, a d am pretty proud abkut the fact that my girls are still lretty perky. Most of the time I go out and about
without a bra.


Hugs
Linde
 

a Birdie on a Wire

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From some of the responses here I'm getting the impression that some are defining "asexual" as not having sex (celibate) or not having the desire to have sex (no libido) yet in the same comment will say they are attracted to women or attracted to men.

Being attracted to a gender or anatomy whether that is physically, romantically or emotionally is sexual orientation.
To be asexual is to not be attracted to anyone, in any way.

Thank you for attending my TEDTalk. :)
 

pamelatransuk

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I was always was very boob oriented , and I am still interested in boobs. But this is less sexual interested, but more of some kind competitve reaction.

I have not seen this point raised before and thinking about it, Yes it applies to me. I have always liked boobs for the sake of appearance and competition.

Hugs

Pamela xx
 

pamelatransuk

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From some of the responses here I'm getting the impression that some are defining "asexual" as not having sex (celibate) or not having the desire to have sex (no libido) yet in the same comment will say they are attracted to women or attracted to men.

Being attracted to a gender or anatomy whether that is physically, romantically or emotionally is sexual orientation.
To be asexual is to not be attracted to anyone, in any way.

Thank you for attending my TEDTalk. :)
Hello again

I never use the word celibate as I understand it to mean foregoing a relationship or sex whereas asexual people have no desire for proper sexual participation but, like myself may enjoy cuddling and caressing and yet never have any desire for anything further.

Just to be precise, I have no libido and no desire for sexual participation but only occasionally find myself attracted to a beautiful woman emotionally or romantically.

Finally I completely respect all viewpoints on both asexuality and on the original subject of this thread.

Hugs

Pamela xx
 

Melanierose

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I have not seen this point raised before and thinking about it, Yes it applies to me. I have always liked boobs for the sake of appearance and competition.

Hugs

Pamela xx
Yes
I have B cups but one is bigger and I sometimes look with envy
 

Linde

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I think having different size boobs is very common. All my cis girlfriends have this.
My left one is clearly outgrowing it's cup, while the right one feels pretty comfy with the current cup size.


Hugs
Linde
 

Katie

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I never use the word celibate as I understand it to mean foregoing a relationship or sex whereas asexual people have no desire for proper sexual participation but, like myself may enjoy cuddling and caressing and yet never have any desire for anything further.
This describes me exactly.
 

Melanierose

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I think having different size boobs is very common. All my cis girlfriends have this.
My left one is clearly outgrowing it's cup, while the right one feels pretty comfy with the current cup size.


Hugs
Linde
Yes all the women I’ve talk to in my village and neighbours all day the same and are probably envious of my small breasts
 

Linde

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Yes all the women I’ve talk to in my village and neighbours all day the same and are probably envious of my small breasts
That is afact. My adopted daughter Amber is a young woman in her mid 30s, and she has very large breasts that cause her a lot of back pain. She always tells me that she is yellows about mine, because they look as if they are the boobs of an 18 year old, in size and how perky they are.


Hugs
Linde
 
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