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Linde

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One member of this forum got very good feminization result, including breast growth, with spiro alone.

Once one had an orchi, I think blockers of all kinds could be counterproductive. Feminization should be best achieved, like it is with natal femals,by introducing the approprite estrogen levels into the blood.
I think this cannot be achieved with oral estrogen, but only transdermally or with injections. At some later development point, progesterone could be added. But progesterone is always a hit and miss hormone.

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Linde
 
D

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This is an interesting propositon Michelle! I never needed blockers, so never considered Bicalutamide, but I will now explore the feminising effect and discuss this with my doctor. I am at the stage now where I need to look at everything as E alone is not doing it.

Hugs,

Allie
I highly recommend it, I mean, cis males develop breasts on bicalutamide (it’s typically used for treating prostate cancer) without any oestrogen involved so give it a go. It’s not just good for blocking T and I think my results speak for themselves and at the end of the day it can’t hurt to try it.
 

pamelatransuk

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Just because something works fine does not mean that there isn't something better, bicalutamide does a better job than cyproterone acetate in every way and the fact that we are prescribed a medication that is primarily used to chemically castrate sex offenders as a matter of course is, well, offensive. If the goal with HRT is to feminize then why not use the only blocker that feminizes and enhances the effects of the oestrodial in your system?

I highly recommend it, I mean, cis males develop breasts on bicalutamide (it’s typically used for treating prostate cancer) without any oestrogen involved so give it a go. It’s not just good for blocking T and I think my results speak for themselves and at the end of the day it can’t hurt to try it.
Thank you so much for explaining that Bicalutamide feminises along with the E and hence may be most worthwhile and productive after T substantially blocked.

Thank you for your recommendation as I agree your results speak for themselves.

I shall pursue this with my endo just like Allie after my upcoming surgery.

Hugs

Pamela xx
 

Linde

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But Michelle, cis men also develope breasts with taking spiro, taking Finasteride, or even more so, taking Dudasteride.
But except Finasteride, none of the other medications are recommended for long term use.
One really would have to compare the long term use and breast developement with each other.
I seem to remember that neither of those medications provides a continuous growth beyond a certain level. This means, your boobs do not grow any further, if you take the medication longer.

How is this with your stuff?


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Linde
 

Donica

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Sadly they want me to stay on spiro for it's effects on reducing blood pressure. They are even going to try to keep me on it after my GCS. That's what they think :sneaky:.
 

Confused

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Allie and Pamela,

I am not a doctor, but my many discussions on prostate cancer forums back up what Michelle says.

I don't know how much growth you can get, but from the complaints I have heard, I think it might help you.

Hugs,
Mike
 

Linde

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Sadly they want me to stay on spiro for it's effects on reducing blood pressure. They are even going to try to keep me on it after my GCS. That's what they think :sneaky:.
There are as good other meds for this, which do not have any of the negative side effects of spiro. Check with your doc about Metolazone!

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Linde
 

a Birdie on a Wire

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When I first started hormone therapy my androgen blocker was bicalutamide. It took some convincing but was able to get my doctor to prescribe it AND... believe it or not, my insurance covered it.

I was on a pretty low dose but there is no doubt it was doing it's thing at blocking my testosterone. Actually, what makes bicalutamide (in my opinion) superior to all others is it blocks the receptors so testosterone and DHT are not able to bind to them.

After December though my doc refused to prescribe it and so we broke up. I cut my dose in half and limped along with that for about two months. Even at that extremely low dose it continued to block the receptors. I finally ran out and for the past two months have been on estrogen monotherapy.

But to Michelle's post... why have most trans women not heard of it? No idea but I'm convinced most trans women don't perform their due diligence. They don't research as much as possible nor take the time to understand the chemistry and biology of how it works.

Why is it a dirty word in medical communities? Pretty sure this one is because the risk/benefit does not justify using it. According to the UCSF standard of care, it refers to a study that shows there were some people who had liver toxicity. The thing is the numbers were incredibly miniscule. I think what it is really is that many transgender standards of care feel that for someone <sarcasm font> "choosing to transition" </sarcasm font>; the slight potential for liver toxicity isn't worth the liability to the doctor. For a prostate cancer patient... hey, let's go balls to the wall! (pun intended :D )

Anyway, it worked really well for me and my blood work showed ALL my numbers well within the healthy range. And I took it long enough to put me into the feedback loop where estrogen alone is able to keep my t-level suppressed.

I just got my blood work back a few days ago and after being on monotherapy for eight weeks, testosterone and estrogen levels are right where they should be. My hormone levels are full on girl!
 

Linde

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I think what it is really is that many transgender standards of care feel that for someone <sarcasm font> "choosing to transition" </sarcasm font>; the slight potential for liver toxicity isn't worth the liability to the doctor. For a prostate cancer patient... hey, let's go balls to the wall! (pun intended :D )
And that is the problem, the use of bicalutamide for trans people is a clear off label use, and if some negative outcome is happening, the insurance may refuse to pay for it, and the doc is being taken by their (whatever one can be taken by). For cancer patients, this bicalutamide is a label use, and the doctor is covered and protected if any negative side effects are discovered.

Once in a while, I am really glad that my body is a screwed up mess, and I never had to go through all the troubles many trans people have to go through. But even I have to convince my providers that I am not a post menopausal woman, nd that I need higher hormone levels than those women do!

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Linde
 

Confused

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But to Michelle's post... why have most trans women not heard of it? No idea but I'm convinced most trans women don't perform their due diligence. They don't research as much as possible nor take the time to understand the chemistry and biology of how it works.

A little over 3 years ago I trusted a doctor for something I had very little knowledge of. I learned the hard way to not trust my doctors. I will not make that mistake again ever!

Why is it a dirty word in medical communities? Pretty sure this one is because the risk/benefit does not justify using it. According to the UCSF standard of care, it refers to a study that shows there were some people who had liver toxicity. The thing is the numbers were incredibly miniscule. I think what it is really is that many transgender standards of care feel that for someone <sarcasm font> "choosing to transition" </sarcasm font>; the slight potential for liver toxicity isn't worth the liability to the doctor. For a prostate cancer patient... hey, let's go balls to the wall! (pun intended :D )

Because I am a cancer survivor and transgender, it offers me more choices. (I don't wish that on anybody) It did cause me a massive amount of research time to understand it all for both. I still get daily emails from cancer forums. The research enabled me to have informed discussions with my doctors and get what I need. I fired one who didn't like it. SOC is NOT always the best way, and there are some battles worth having.

My GCS surgeon asked me if I had medical training. I have not, except I have spent the last 3 years studying EVERYTHING, AND listening to some of my friends on this forum.

Hugs,
Mike
 

pamelatransuk

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Allie and Pamela,

I am not a doctor, but my many discussions on prostate cancer forums back up what Michelle says.

I don't know how much growth you can get, but from the complaints I have heard, I think it might help you.

Hugs,
Mike
Noted Mike with many thanks.

Hugs

Pamela xx
 
D

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When I first started hormone therapy my androgen blocker was bicalutamide. It took some convincing but was able to get my doctor to prescribe it AND... believe it or not, my insurance covered it.

I was on a pretty low dose but there is no doubt it was doing it's thing at blocking my testosterone. Actually, what makes bicalutamide (in my opinion) superior to all others is it blocks the receptors so testosterone and DHT are not able to bind to them.

After December though my doc refused to prescribe it and so we broke up. I cut my dose in half and limped along with that for about two months. Even at that extremely low dose it continued to block the receptors. I finally ran out and for the past two months have been on estrogen monotherapy.

But to Michelle's post... why have most trans women not heard of it? No idea but I'm convinced most trans women don't perform their due diligence. They don't research as much as possible nor take the time to understand the chemistry and biology of how it works.

Why is it a dirty word in medical communities? Pretty sure this one is because the risk/benefit does not justify using it. According to the UCSF standard of care, it refers to a study that shows there were some people who had liver toxicity. The thing is the numbers were incredibly miniscule. I think what it is really is that many transgender standards of care feel that for someone <sarcasm font> "choosing to transition" </sarcasm font>; the slight potential for liver toxicity isn't worth the liability to the doctor. For a prostate cancer patient... hey, let's go balls to the wall! (pun intended :D )

Anyway, it worked really well for me and my blood work showed ALL my numbers well within the healthy range. And I took it long enough to put me into the feedback loop where estrogen alone is able to keep my t-level suppressed.

I just got my blood work back a few days ago and after being on monotherapy for eight weeks, testosterone and estrogen levels are right where they should be. My hormone levels are full on girl!
I think you nailed it on both fronts Birdie! Not only are a lot of trans women dangerously uneducated about HRT but also doctors do not stick to their Hippocratic oath and instead cover their arse for liability instead of providing best care practices; I had a massive blowout with my first doctor for doing just that and she even had the gall to say to me "Stop bringing up peer reviewed research I don't want to hear that"... like what in the cinnamon toast fuck is that? The liver toxicity issue is over exaggerated with bicalutamide mostly because of finasteride which does have a higher incident rate of liver toxicity than bicalutamide but as they are in the same "family" of drugs it gets a bad name. All I can say is that my liver is above average in terms of function for my age group possibly because I don't drink? But this raises a more important point which is this; why in the world out of all the medical world and of all the conditions treated by medical science are trans women the only group that has to "educate" themselves? It just shouldn't be necessary and yet even now it is when in reality the burden should not fall to us but to doctors whose job it is to treat us not with the bare minimum but the best standards of care available.
 

Linde

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all the conditions treated by medical science are trans women the only group that has to "educate" themselves?
Ha, trans women have no problem, compared to most intersex persons! It took me years to get treated at all, and I am in an intersex Facebook group in which several women run from doc to doc because of abdominal pains that they are told cannot be with their condition, or they get rejected because their case is to complicated. In addition to not only having a screwed up body, many of us have also to deal with the typical trans issues.

It simply sucks if you are not 100% cis normal.

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Linde
 

Confused

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Sadly, Intersex is not understood by many doctors, just as transgender is not understood, but
I think following SOC is common for almost anything if you don't educate yourself and speak up. It is not just transgender related. The hard lesson I learned was from prostate cancer. I think most doctors follow the SOC just to be safe even when they know it is not in the best interest of the patient just to eliminate possible malpractice, lawsuits, etc.

Hugs,
Mike
 
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