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Marcie's journey -life after Maizie (oh and my marriage)

marcieelizabeth

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Okay, so Moni did not tell me to transition, or to come out, in fact I did not "talk" to Moni for at lest a few days after It occurred to me that I was, I AM Transgender, and a woman,  But Moni has been around for the rest of this mess...it is a good mess.  Which leads me to today.  I will fill you all in on the past later, but the thing is, the thing Moni wants me to talk about, the thing I have been ruminating about to Moni, yes chewing it up over and over, and she has been patient but needs to air out the truth and we decided the truth, the hard truth may be something not just I, but others may gain something hearing. 

The thing is after almost three years of hanging in there through three major family medical emergencies, and our daughter getting married, a true love story that happened in 1981, and 36 years of marriage, and three older (32,28,18) kids, my wife, whom I still love (although not her actions recently) asked for a separation, not a divorce ( I suspect yet...), amidst a major financial failure for us, and thus having to move.  THis led to me venting to Moni about still loving her.

The truth is, though, that my wife has been verbally abusive, and has taken advantage of me (she has not worked for 28 years despite our need for her to) financially, and emotionally.  I would work, then shop for food, then fix dinner.  Now she has some mental issues - depression among them linked to physical issues - thyroid, in part, but anyway, the latest verbal abuse was just mean, in a moment of dog trouble when at wits end, she says - What hte HELL, M - almost calling me by my old name, then saying" I don't even know what to call you anymore, what do you think of that?"  My answer is nothing...I would have exploded, but since we are not staying together, I try not to aggravate, we are still sheltering together now so...  But that is just the tip of the iceberg, there is a Titanic amount of guilt on my part about all of this - the financial issues, the gender change - for her part she says that has little to do with our separating...BUT she has basically turned her family, BTW they are like 30 p;us family in our are within a half hour, that have been my family for 38 years that I am now not allowed to go to family gatherings, all this while I have my two sisters at my request are helping find affordable housing nearby (our daughter is living with her so I am getting that out of the deal) and paying her way.  Moni, I can go on, BUT please let loose on me for the sake of all.  I am in tears just writing all this.  REALLY I HAVE GOOD THINGS TO SHARE AS WELL.  But later...Moni, the stage or Blog is all yours...

Love and  virtual hugs, Marcie (Marse for you Moni as you started that!)
 

OzGirl

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Marcie I so feel for you. I am about to finalise my second divorce so I’m no stranger to marital disharmony. I love my current ex wife with all my heart, but she simply couldn’t be married to a woman. We are at least still living together as friends. Your children are old enough to figure out the why’s and make their own decisions, but has your wife turned your broader family against you? There is never a good time to go through this, but now is particularly bad, especially for financial reasons. Maybe a temporary separation will help her realise how important you are to her, I guess the secret is to minimise the build up of bad blood between everyone. I do hope you will find a resolution which gives you peace, and a stable future.

Lots of hugs,

Allie
 

Linde

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Hello Marci, I feel really sorry for your situation. My ex and I were also together for 36 years, when I got abusive and eventually drove her away. We had a pretty bad time after that, but we stayed married for several more years, but did not live together. We were kind of over most of the hate for each other, when we eventually got divorced, and did not have ugly fights about splitting up the possessions. Now, about 10 years later, we are pretty good friends again.
If you guys can manage it to cut those 14 or so years of fighting out, and remain friends, your future life will be a lot better.
I wish you all the best, and I hope that everything will work out well for you.


Hugs
Linde
 

marcieelizabeth

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Allie and Linde,
Both your situations sound similar to mine in different ways. We are still together, and my wife's extended family to whom I was very close are now off limits, I have been uninvited to any of the family events, while Karen and the kids would still go. And the toughest part of that has been no one sees this as something to discuss, or apologize to me for. The kids don't see it as taking sides, and my wife just did it without any discussion and this was before she asked to separate. I am hurt by that. Most of them have remained friends on Facebook, etc, which is certainly weird!

We dont fight because I let her walk have her way mostly. That is one thing Moni wanted to take me to task for here, that and the guilt I fell about most of what is happening even though if I tell you all the details it wont sound that way!

My wife and I are still friends, I don;t know if we would be if I did half what I think of doing to get even with my wife! But I think it is best for our kids if we don't go there. The problem with that is they don't see that their Mom is being selfish and mean. Moni and my sisters keep telling me they will figure it out after we separate, truth is our older kids probably have figured it out, but our youngest definitely has not! I want her to see me love her Mom, and that is what I base my actions on.

Love and hugs and thanks for the encouragement,

Marcie
 

Donica

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Marcie! I went through pretty much the same thing. Once my wife and I separated, the only family event I was ever invited to was my father in law's funeral. And that was only because my mother in law invited me. All my wife's sib's were happy to see me again but, of course, The Ex was not. My kids still love me and we go girl shopping and dinner whenever they come to visit. Things get better over time.

Hugs!
 

Linde

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My experience was all different, her family broke up contact with her, because they felt she should have stuck it through with me. All were still as nice, or mostly even nicer to me as ever. We are now all a happy family again, except I am now their aunt and sister in law.


Hugs
Linde
 

OzGirl

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Marci, I sill feel for you! Keep in contact with your broader family and let them know you miss seeing them. Maybe you can see some individually rather than at functions, and give then the opportunity to invite you. They are in that awkward phase where they don’t want to upset your wife, but if they value your friendship they will still want you in their lives. Stay in touch with your children and make their lives better and they will keep you close.

I’ve always struggled to stand up for myself, so I make an effort to do things to make my loved ones happier and keep them in my life. It is basically unfair that we have to do so much more to have a basic life, but that is our lot.

Hugs,

Allie
 

Monica

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Marse, I am so glad you are posting here. After being friends a long time, I got to a point where I thought it would be beneficial for you to air this out to others. This is a great group, I know, I ran credit reports!;) We did discuss you doing this. I want to explain this because my comments contain frustrations that don't happen from quick judgments, but formed over time. Her treatment of you goes way back before you came out. It's my opinion that the issues may have been compounded by the trans thing, but it didn't cause them. You do not deserve to be treated or talked to like this woman does to you. The absolute saddest part about this is your daughter is picking up cues from her. She treats you disrespectfully as well. Sweetie you have taken it, taken it, taken it! They need a lesson in reality where you don't do everything for them. It isn't good for them. It isn't good for you to let it continue. Another friend talks of 'tough love.' You need to put your foot down and say enough is enough. Only on those terms will you ever have a healthy relationship with them. You need to stop beating yourself up and get a little righteous indignation. If my family continued to see people who shunned me, I'd be pissed. It is an absolute betrayal. Ok, I'll stop there for now. Love ya, kiddo!
 

KimOct

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Marcie, I was in two verbally and emotionally abusive relationships. It is NOT going to change. People can argue, people can disagree, and people can on occasion say hurtful things to each other but the question is at their core is your partner KIND? Kind people will care for you, they will apologize, they will put your happiness in front of theirs in most cases. I don't see that in your situation in the slightest.

Divorce is hard. I was married 18 years. Then I rekindled an old flame after divorce. It was toxic.

Being lonely is hard sometimes but being in a bad relationship is worse. Be kind to yourself, even if your soon to be ex won't be.
 

Kenna

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Marcie, that sounds so hard! There's plenty of both differences and echos of my experience, and I can remember the pain! But your experience sounds even worse than mine. I'll probably never know enough to responsibly get involved, but my general advise during times such as this is to always be true to yourself and to be mindful of what your kids are learning about relationships from you.
In time the pain does die down, although there will undoubtedly be hard times along the road.
Hugs,
-Kenna
 

Monica

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We dont fight because I let her walk have her way mostly. That is one thing Moni wanted to take me to task for here, that and the guilt I fell about most of what is happening even though if I tell you all the details it wont sound that way!

My wife and I are still friends, I don;t know if we would be if I did half what I think of doing to get even with my wife! But I think it is best for our kids if we don't go there. The problem with that is they don't see that their Mom is being selfish and mean. Moni and my sisters keep telling me they will figure it out after we separate, truth is our older kids probably have figured it out, but our youngest definitely has not! I want her to see me love her Mom, and that is what I base my actions on.

I'm not sure you really mean get even although I don't blame you for being angry. Your actions don't have to be hostile. I would describe it as resolute, firm maybe, in the sense of, "I'm not gonna take it anymore." but done maturely, calmly. "Friends" don't treat each other like she does you. She feeds on any guilt feelings you have and you have to get her out of your head. You need to start rebuilding and then building who you want to be. I feel like my being so adamant here is so out of character for me. Usually it is @KimOct who is this giving this kind of firmness. The thing is, I have watched this merry go round over and over and I'm not thinking you see that changes need to happen. Marse, I'm urging you to be on here more, get feedback from these lovely people. I know they will like you. I'm sorry if I am embarrassing you, it is not my intention. Shock you into exploring this further is more like it.
With much love,
Moni
 

marcieelizabeth

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Hey Linde, thanks - I so wish that my accepted (wife's) extended family would accept me. I am pretty sure I understand why. We were going to tell her Brothers and Sisters together, But our daughter was on the edge of being seriously sick, I told her we should not leave her alone, and my wife told me she was going anyway. She came back and when I asked how it went her reply was - they ALL felt I had deceived them. That was what she had told me when I came out to her a year and a half prior. Truth is I only knew myself for 10 days before I told her. She just could not believe that. I am heartbroken, and more.
 

marcieelizabeth

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I'm not sure you really mean get even although I don't blame you for being angry. Your actions don't have to be hostile. I would describe it as resolute, firm maybe, in the sense of, "I'm not gonna take it anymore." but done maturely, calmly. "Friends" don't treat each other like she does you. She feeds on any guilt feelings you have and you have to get her out of your head. You need to start rebuilding and then building who you want to be. I feel like my being so adamant here is so out of character for me. Usually it is @KimOct who is this giving this kind of firmness. The thing is, I have watched this merry go round over and over and I'm not thinking you see that changes need to happen. Marse, I'm urging you to be on here more, get feedback from these lovely people. I know they will like you. I'm sorry if I am embarrassing you, it is not my intention. Shock you into exploring this further is more like it.
With much love,
Moni

Hey embarrass me? try again. NOPE. I get it, but truth be told I shocked my wife...unlike you and I know others here she or I had no idea this was possible since 1981 when we met! Yes she is using my built in guilty complex, I learned that early in life as it was how my mpm kept us in line, not punishment or tough love, we were always met with kindness and love, tough love will never be in my nature, I get that some will not understand that. You, Moni, have been there for me over and over again, I hope I am driving you too crazy. However, tough love wont happen, moving on and rebuilding my new life, WILL. We are in the process of separating so she will find out what life is really like without me. I hope it is what she wants, and I hope I can move on and understand how to do the same. I dont "feel" right about it. But that is me.

Love ya Moni, but you know that!

Marse
 

marcieelizabeth

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Marcie, that sounds so hard! There's plenty of both differences and echos of my experience, and I can remember the pain! But your experience sounds even worse than mine. I'll probably never know enough to responsibly get involved, but my general advise during times such as this is to always be true to yourself and to be mindful of what your kids are learning about relationships from you.
In time the pain does die down, although there will undoubtedly be hard times along the road.
Hugs,
-Kenna
Thanks Kenna,

I understand that our kids are learning from our actions, that is par tof my not being mean or angry, I need them to see who is the one making this happen, and hopefully see the love I still share, the tolerance I have, and the source of the pain we are all feeling. It is something I never believed I would do, separate form my true love and move toward ending the home we have shared., I also thought I understood my spuse better than I obviously do! Thanks!

Hugs,
Marcie
 

marcieelizabeth

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Marcie, I was in two verbally and emotionally abusive relationships. It is NOT going to change. People can argue, people can disagree, and people can on occasion say hurtful things to each other but the question is at their core is your partner KIND? Kind people will care for you, they will apologize, they will put your happiness in front of theirs in most cases. I don't see that in your situation in the slightest.

Divorce is hard. I was married 18 years. Then I rekindled an old flame after divorce. It was toxic.

Being lonely is hard sometimes but being in a bad relationship is worse. Be kind to yourself, even if your soon to be ex won't be.


Thanks Kim,

We are kind in between, in fact we are...exactly as we have always been. I wish my spouse would go to therapy with me, I doubt we can stay together, but I need to know the truth about why, and get through the tough part so we can stay in the kind mode! Moni is right to say you are good people!

Love and hugs,
Marcie
 

marcieelizabeth

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Marci, I sill feel for you! Keep in contact with your broader family and let them know you miss seeing them. Maybe you can see some individually rather than at functions, and give then the opportunity to invite you. They are in that awkward phase where they don’t want to upset your wife, but if they value your friendship they will still want you in their lives. Stay in touch with your children and make their lives better and they will keep you close.

I’ve always struggled to stand up for myself, so I make an effort to do things to make my loved ones happier and keep them in my life. It is basically unfair that we have to do so much more to have a basic life, but that is our lot.

Hugs,

Allie
Allie, I think we are so much alike! I have tried on social media to keep in touch, and most have openly been kind, responsive and loving. Even those who have blocked me on FB will reply thanks and chat when I wish them Happy Birthday! it is certainly odd. A cousin who holds an annual party on the fourth uninvited me with the statement "It would be better for us, if you don't attend..." I was heartbroken and hurt, at least one of her cousins did not attend when he found out! This was long before we knew we were separating.

Love and hugs Marcie
 

marcieelizabeth

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So I consider this POST#2 of the BLOG.

I am not good at letting LOVE die. The first post here was actually from a promise I made to Moni, who I have driven crazy with my venting mostly. She gets these texts that are out of the blue, often angry with specific quotes or events, that have precipitated my venting. Truth is they are sort of rare given the daily back and forth between my wife. Her name is Karen.

I have loved Karen from the day we met, actually before we actually met, in the nervous stomach and heightened feelings when I saw her, when a mutual friend introduced us, when I had a different mutual friend re-introduce us at a party with the words, Hi Paula, aren't you going to introduce us, and then both our mutual friends and Paula fell away, leaving us and we spent literally that night into early morning, and every possible minute together since then. Despite her recent telling me that she needs us to separate I still love her. I know because of my heart and who I am, I always will.

Karen has never been quite built like that. But it never showed as we have always been in love. I know she still does, but cannot let herself. I am unsure if it is transphobia, fear of being a Lesbian, or more likely seen as one, or maybe she really believes I tricked her, or was a she said to me the day I came out to her, I have been deceiving her...NOT SO! Her family is the kind of white middle class family that is in their actions fair, caring people open to all people equally, but that in private would share jokes that are offensive to the specific groups they are offensive to, even to groups they themselves belong to, that is hard to write as I never stopped them from telling them, but did not participate or hang around long once that started.

So maybe you understand where we are now, maybe I will have to fill in the gaps later, but the truth is, What is happening is Karen has let her expression if not her like of me die, and is letting her love go too. Her telling me that we need to separate went like this " I don't want to tell you because I know it will hurt you..." IT DID, but I did not immediately cry, I felt shock,and also relief as she had made a decision one I could not make. Specifically that is, that if she cannot accept me, and us when I am me, the same person she met, but in a female body and role, then she cannot be together with me. Daily that is as the second statement she said was, "I just want to live separately, not divorce, do you?" in retrospect I believe it could be because she needs the support I provide both with the kids, and monetarily, and our youngest really needs both of us, more about her later!

So I am just really, really, bad at letting love die, or become hidden, I am not good at pretending, nor lying, so I am stuck trying to let my love die for someone I will never have the same relationship with that I did when I was male. I do not want to learn how to let love die, I do not want lose any part of me that is so amazing, that is so right, so I think I wont! I will NOT let love die, but I will turn it into something else, I am not sure what yet! I believe I have a choice, and this is mine. Moni, don't think this is the end of venting or driving you crazy, I have to have someone to tell all to, You are it!


Well I need to go check on what Karen is trying to sneak out of the house with that is really mine. After all I bought ALL of it...

Love and Hugs, Marcie
 

marcieelizabeth

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Marcie! I went through pretty much the same thing. Once my wife and I separated, the only family event I was ever invited to was my father in law's funeral. And that was only because my mother in law invited me. All my wife's sib's were happy to see me again but, of course, The Ex was not. My kids still love me and we go girl shopping and dinner whenever they come to visit. Things get better over time.

Hugs!


Thanks Donica,

It really helps to know what I am going through is not that different. I am hopeful about some restitution as far as the family goes. Just dont expect it! Holidays are very different!

Love and hugs Marcie
 

Linde

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Well I need to go check on what Karen is trying to sneak out of the house with that is really mine. After all I bought ALL of it...

Love and Hugs, Marcie
Marcie, this sentence sound horrible to me!
My ex was and still is the love of my life, and always will be. When she left me, I did not even once were afraid, she would take anything with her that would have been our common possessions, and I know she would not have tried to do this, because we still respected each other as honest people. Later, when the splitting up of goods started, we really talked to each other about the stuff. We sold a lot on Craigslist, and the money went into a joint account, which we used to pay for the updates of the house to make it ready for the sale. e both could have raided that account, but did not take a penny out without talking about it.

But what I read here from you, are you sure she really loves you, or did ever love you as deeply as you love her? If you allow a person, of who you are afraid she might cheat on you, to dictate your future development, you might be up for an ugly surprise!
I agree with Moni, you have to free yourself from those ties and start to work on living your very own life. It is scary at first, and it is hard to figure out how to do this, but once you are in the swing of it, you feel free and liberated, and can breath finally.
I can tell you from my own experience that my life as a woman beats my life as a man by hundred times or more.
I am a very happy woman and I love my life!
I hope you will start your path to happiness, and a wonderful life as the woman you are!




Hugs
Linde
 

Monica

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Hey embarrass me? try again. NOPE. I get it, but truth be told I shocked my wife...unlike you and I know others here she or I had no idea this was possible since 1981 when we met! Yes she is using my built in guilty complex, I learned that early in life as it was how my mpm kept us in line, not punishment or tough love, we were always met with kindness and love, tough love will never be in my nature, I get that some will not understand that. You, Moni, have been there for me over and over again, I hope I am driving you too crazy. However, tough love wont happen, moving on and rebuilding my new life, WILL. We are in the process of separating so she will find out what life is really like without me. I hope it is what she wants, and I hope I can move on and understand how to do the same. I dont "feel" right about it. But that is me.

Love ya Moni, but you know that!

Marse
Marse, I like you the way you are, and don't fundamentally wish you to change who you are. I think you know that. I do want to see you move forward. I believe that means leaving baggage behind. Even if you go with the worst case interpretation of how she feels 'wronged' (and I don't), you 'shocked her.' Okay, so what does that mean? If it means you can't stay together, well that is certainly something a lot of people have trouble doing, staying together. It should not , I repeat, should not, be her 'get out of jail free card' when it comes to supporting you as a person. It is always legitimate if an SO can't remain in the same relationship. It's okay for them to be shocked and upset, at first. But to use that event as a weapon against someone they had this relationship with, is just wrong. One of the smartest things I ever did was tell my partner early on. But, if I hadn't, and I 'shocked' her later on, I would have explained why I kept it secret (which you didn't really do). I would have helped her in any way I could, but in the end, its time to move forward. I would not let anyone hold that over my head and I wouldn't beat myself up for it. It might seem callous but I'd say, let's go to a therapist, but if you don't want to go work on it, I don't feel sorry for you. She has a responsibility as an adult too. I think so many of us have drummed into our heads that we should feel this tremendous guilt because we're trans. We are just as deserving of respect as anyone else.
 
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