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marcieelizabeth

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Hi all, something that has occurred over and over after I came out is people whom I know will on the side tell me about their LGBTQ+ child, cousin, friend, in-law .or significant other...

This has meant a few things to me!

1) My coming out has helped them to open up about those they know and/or care about! That is a great thing, I think it is anyway

2) They think telling me about others they know that are LGBTQ+ will confer to me that they understand and support me! While that may be true, it is also sad that they cannot just say to me: I support you for being you! It is sad that they feel judged by knowing and supporting us, so they need to tell me they know others who they think are like me! But in reality someone who is any of the other inclusive groups in the LGBTQ+ spectrum (no derogatory anything inferred, but a rainbow is a spectrum of colors! :) ) are not like me, many who are trans are also maybe not like me, may feel the same judgement, the same prejudice, the same social stigma as those others, but I can only know their reality by talking to them! Not from simply being trans.

3) They do not know how to talk to me in my newly expressed reality. They do not understand that all the experience I had as my former self, the feelings, thoughts, ideas are all still there! It is a sad statement that this is true, but at least they are trying. As many will not even go this far, and in truth may not know anyone else who is LGBTQ+ in their lives, they may have avoided those like me, use forced them to address a prejudice they had, maybe I am the first of "our kind" (ha!!) , in their lives, and my coming out may have forced a barrier to be breached. That is significant and a good thing! Hopefully that they are talking to me at all is a good thing, is a place to start.

I am choosing to use it as a way for us to move forward. It is a chance for conversation, that cannot ever be a bad thing!


Love and hugs to you all.

Marcie
 

Monica

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Marcie, I think this is well thought out, thank you for writing it. I try to put myself in the mind of someone trying to show acceptance, who maybe is afraid of saying the wrong thing from lack of knowledge. Heck, you and I live this, but there was a time we were under informed. Saying they have a brand X type person in their life might be the go to because it is the safest thing they can say. It may be someone totally different from trans, but they feel that it is a safe way to express, "Hey, I'm not a hater!" I have found that education is needed, but it is frustrating. I don't want to shove it down someone's throat. I am open to all questions. I think some folks are afraid of the elephant in the room. It's hard knowing which ones to instill our trans gift of information to.
 

Katie

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@marcieelizabeth I have struggled to be patient with some people. It can be difficult to have someone say they understand and support you but then show through their actions that least one of those two statements isn't really true.

Sometimes I will even test people to see if their words are as sincere as they think they are. I recently had someone tell me how much they support me and how they can't understand why my wife is being so unsupportive. I didn't think they really understood what my situation is like., so I asked them to put themselves in my wife's shoes. How would you feel if it was your husband who came out to you and started transitioning? Her reply showed that she really sympathized with my wife more than with me. She said she would have to have some very hard conversations with her husband and that she would help him find a way to live genuinely, but that it would require a divorce. She would not want to stay in the marriage. I asked what if he didn't want a divorce? She just couldn't see continuing the marriage working.

People, for the most part, don't understand us, and quite a few of those people don't even want to. It is a hard reality to face as a transgender person knowing that even the people who are not against you aren't truly for you.
 

marcieelizabeth

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I have had a number of chances to really talk and educate others, some friends, and a few medical professionals, I am wide open to talk to people about it. If the opportunity arises I will tell all! I always make a few points:

1) it is not a choice
2) when I look back I always knew
3) NO ONE would choose to be this! IT IS NOT EASY
4) I will discuss the changes that I have experienced, and what I expect
5) The point that intentional misgendering is an act of hatred, violence, or at the very least hurtful.
6) How amazing it is to be gendered correctly!

Do others tell others anything more or different? DO you openly talk about it?

Love and hugs, Marcie
 

Monica

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Marcie, I go back to the time of my coming out, something you were robbed of the control of in many cases. Even standing up in front of 90 or so coworkers, I made it very clear, the misery this had me in. I see no reason to leave that out, although some do. Most of you had or have the same emotions. It drives you nuts these feelings. If someone was going to judge me harshly, it was gonna be after hearing of my choice, continued hiding and a certain constant low grade of painful existence, or a risky jump that might lose me every relationship I had with a chance at becoming a whole, happy person. If they want to call that a choice, so be it. In telling them of the pain, I was educating. I wasn't looking for sympathy. I was trying to give a window to what makes someone choose such a drastic step. If they rejected me after hearing my story, I was ready to accept that they didn't need to be a part of the new life I was building. Despite my nerves, it must have been powerful to those listening. I got a standing ovation and many hugs. What I take from that is the telling, the education, should include a decent description of how awful dysphoria is.
 

Kenna

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1) it is not a choice
2) when I look back I always knew
3) NO ONE would choose to be this! IT IS NOT EASY
4) I will discuss the changes that I have experienced, and what I expect
5) The point that intentional misgendering is an act of hatred, violence, or at the very least hurtful.
6) How amazing it is to be gendered correctly!

Do others tell others anything more or different? DO you openly talk about it?

@marcieelizabeth, @Moni hit the nail on the head! We have no choice in who we are, but we do have a very hard choice in deciding what to do about it, and how.
In summarising how we educate people I think it is important to make this distinction clear.

Once I recognised my true gender I realised that I could have survived continuing on as I was. However the calm and sense of "rightness" in admitting first to myself, and then to others who I really was, led me to realise that the huge and daunting cost, both financially and emotionally, of proceeding with the evolution of myself would be less than the cost of continuing to live a charade. Each of us has to find our own answers to this. All our courses will be different and the positions we pause at, fly over, or end up living in will be unique to each of us.

-Kenna
 

marcieelizabeth

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@marcieelizabeth, @Moni

Once I recognized my true gender I realized that I could have survived continuing on as I was. However the calm and sense of "rightness" in admitting first to myself, and then to others who I really was, led me to realize that the huge and daunting cost, both financially and emotionally, of proceeding with the evolution of myself would be less than the cost of continuing to live a charade. Each of us has to find our own answers to this. All our courses will be different and the positions we pause at, fly over, or end up living in will be unique to each of us.

-Kenna

Kenna - I get that each of us, choose what to do with the truth. I could not ignore it, and I think those that do, are luckier? not as sure? stronger? happier? than I am?

Once I knew who I was, I could never not be who I am. That may seem to be a choice, but We do not choose to be who we are. Right? Choosing what we do once we know for me unfortunately was also not a choice. It was also supported at the time, my wife immediately told me she knew that it was right for me to transition, and she could see I had not been so happy for a long long time! THAT changed! Her support was derailed by a number of sad events, a major leg injury she had, a major health issue our 17 year old daughter had, financial problems, and a derailing of progress toward her considering to remain together! And her telling her family about my transition without me present...THAT was the worst thing, but I stayed to be with our daughter...I would not do it differently, but wish I could!

love and hugs Marcie
 

OzGirl

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Marci, being trans isn’t a choice, it was hardwired into us before we were born. What we do about it can involve some choice early on. I recognised I was trans very early in my life, and chose not to act on it. Various key points came in my life where that decision had to be made again, and every time I chose not to transition. I managed dysphoria, or so I thought. In my 60’s, my dysphoria became unmanageable, even though I was still determined never to transition. My dysphoria made me very sick, to the point I had no choice but to transition or die.

I know I pushed it further than most, but what I learned is that ultimately, we have no choice in this. I still don’t want to transition, but I know it is the only way I can survive. I did make choices early on that were against my Gender ID, but I could not continue that forever. Some of us believe we choose to satisfy our Gender ID, bt if you really think about how hard, painful, and expensive this is, nobody in their right mind would choose this! We don’t, we are just satisfying a need.

Hugs,

Allie
 

Marie62

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Once I knew who I was, I could never not be who I am. That may seem to be a choice, but We do not choose to be who we are. Right? Choosing what we do once we know for me unfortunately was also not a choice.
Marcie, the horrible thing is that this immediate need to become what and who we are once we recognize it, is equally strongly embedded in our spouses. I have only seen few couples truly stay in love and with each other after one partner makes a trans change which also changes the outwardly visible supposed sexual orientation of the spouse, such as a profoundly heterosexual wife all of a sudden being faced with living in what is then an inherently lesbian relationship.
This can and does go against the grain with most and „pleading“ simply is not going to work. Perhaps you can make it work (better) between the two of you again if both of you openly acknowledge that neither of you have a choice other than to be or become who you are, but that - inwardly - you still are the same person with the same qualities as before? This would also mean to explicitly acknowledge to her over again, that you really understand what suffering you are causing her and to let her know that you are sorry to *have* to do that, but that you simply have no choice?
... being trans isn’t a choice, it was hardwired into us before we were born. What we do about it can involve some choice early on. ... We don’t, we are just satisfying a need.
Allie, I am not sure if we really have a choice in „what we do about it“ at any point in time after having found ourselves. Your own example clearly shows that the only choice you had was to delay the choice you never had, right?
And I would also not say we are „satisfying a need“, but Instead „a necessity“. I was really struck by this in the movie „The danish girl“ where the trans character Lillie Elbe was inflicting horrible pain in her wife and all the friends around her and I only then (3 weeks into being Marie) realized how terrible it can be to not have a choice, to have to do the *necessary* thing.
I was heartbroken and hated myself for more than a week after that, before I finally realized that this is what „identity“ is all about and that I also have no choice but to follow my identity ...

Hugs to both of you,
Marie
 
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OzGirl

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Marcie, the horrible thing is that this immediate need to become what and who we are once we recognize it, is equally strongly embedded in our spouses. I have only seen few couples truly stay in love and with each other after one partner makes a trans change which also changes the outwardly visible supposed sexual orientation of the spouse, such as a profoundly heterosexual wife all of a sudden being faced with living in what is then an inherently lesbian relationship.
This can and does go against the grain with most and „pleading“ simply is not going to work. Perhaps you can make it work (better) between the two of you again if both of you openly acknowledge that neither of you have a choice other than to be or become who you are, but that - inwardly - you still are the same person with the same qualities as before? This would also mean to explicitly acknowledge to her over again, that you really understand what suffering you are causing her and to let her know that you are sorry to *have* to do that, but that you simply have no choice?

Allie, I am not sure if we really have a choice in „what we do about it“ at any point in time after having found ourselves. Your own example clearly shows that the only choice you had was to delay the choice you never had, right?
And I would also not say we are „satisfying a need“, but Instead „a necessity“. I was really struck by this in the movie „The danish girl“ where the trans character Lillie Elbe was inflicting horrible pain in her wife and all the friends around her and I only then (3 weeks into being Marie) realized how terrible it can be to not have a choice, to have to do the *necessary* thing.
I was heartbroken and hated myself for more than a week after that, before I finally realized that this is what „identity“ is all about and that I also have no choice but to follow my identity ...

Hugs to both of you,
Marie

Marie, we are on the same page but for some language. Some choice early on means that we can choose to transition, not to transition, or go part of the way in the early stages, but when it get to the ultimate phase, there is only the choice between death and survival. I found myself at 4 years old, but chose not to transition in my early years, to be me at home in my middle years, but ran out of choices in the end. I think my case shows fairly solidly what you can do over the years, but also that at some point there will be no more options. My experience had me studying being trans for most of my life, but it wasn't until I read the research on minute physical differences in the brain that all my questions were answered.

Hugs,

Allie
 

TonyaJanelle

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Once I knew who I was, I could never not be who I am. That may seem to be a choice, but We do not choose to be who we are. Right? Choosing what we do once we know for me unfortunately was also not a choice.

That is spot on Marcie. Once I figured out that yes, I really was transgender, I knew I had to at least try transitioning. There is no way I could go back.
 

TonyaJanelle

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Marcie, the horrible thing is that this immediate need to become what and who we are once we recognize it, is equally strongly embedded in our spouses. I have only seen few couples truly stay in love and with each other after one partner makes a trans change which also changes the outwardly visible supposed sexual orientation of the spouse, such as a profoundly heterosexual wife all of a sudden being faced with living in what is then an inherently lesbian relationship.
This can and does go against the grain with most and „pleading“ simply is not going to work. Perhaps you can make it work (better) between the two of you again if both of you openly acknowledge that neither of you have a choice other than to be or become who you are, but that - inwardly - you still are the same person with the same qualities as before? This would also mean to explicitly acknowledge to her over again, that you really understand what suffering you are causing her and to let her know that you are sorry to *have* to do that, but that you simply have no choice?

Is that talking in general, about Marcie or about me? Cause that's pretty much what I'm living.
 

Katie

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@OzGirl you make a good point about the progression. I was at the point of choosing between death and survival when I chose to live and it turned my marriage upside down. It's still a very difficult road to navigate, but I am glad I stuck around instead of checking out.
 

Marie62

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Is that talking in general, about Marcie or about me? Cause that's pretty much what I'm living.
It does say "Marcie" at the beginning of the sentence, but in a sense we all are in there, it's only that some are more and some are less lucky. I for one, could be called lucky because when I found myself at 58, my girls were 25 and 26 and had left home long ago and my wife and I had been separated for more than 2 years, well I would say this is at least "luck of sorts".

This gives me a privileged position, since I do not have to worry about my family, well bullshit, I do and I have to, but not in the sense that Katie and Marcie and many of you around here have to, where there still IS an ACTIVE family with children to tend to and to shepherd from ill effects.

I can hardly imagine what this would have been like for me and I am dead certain that my wife - while accepting me as such - would still have done so more in the sense of "a man has to do what a man has to do" and with our partnership or love gone - instantly - since she would have choked at the thought of being married to a woman.
 

Linde

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Being for a longer time out and about now, I have to say that the notion that we don't change inside is not that true. Yes, our core believe will not change, but the way how we present this to the outside has changed some. Estrogen or testosterone has made changes in the way we present and assert our opinions, and also how we act.
I think these are the differences, our make outside contacts feel that we did change, and have become different persons.

Just take, in my case, my seuality. I was always interested in females only, and had no desire to come closer to man than shaking hands, and that made me to be a solid heterosexual person. I gave up my male presentation, and am a woman now, my sexual interest has not changed an iota, but I am now a lesbian. This is kind of disturbing to the cis world around me.
There are other aspects of my outside presentation that have changed, it is hard for cis people to understand this.


Hugs
Linde
 

Emma

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Marcie, the horrible thing is that this immediate need to become what and who we are once we recognize it, is equally strongly embedded in our spouses. I have only seen few couples truly stay in love and with each other after one partner makes a trans change which also changes the outwardly visible supposed sexual orientation of the spouse, such as a profoundly heterosexual wife all of a sudden being faced with living in what is then an inherently lesbian relationship.
This can and does go against the grain with most and „pleading“ simply is not going to work. Perhaps you can make it work (better) between the two of you again if both of you openly acknowledge that neither of you have a choice other than to be or become who you are, but that - inwardly - you still are the same person with the same qualities as before? This would also mean to explicitly acknowledge to her over again, that you really understand what suffering you are causing her and to let her know that you are sorry to *have* to do that, but that you simply have no choice?

Allie, I am not sure if we really have a choice in „what we do about it“ at any point in time after having found ourselves. Your own example clearly shows that the only choice you had was to delay the choice you never had, right?
And I would also not say we are „satisfying a need“, but Instead „a necessity“. I was really struck by this in the movie „The danish girl“ where the trans character Lillie Elbe was inflicting horrible pain in her wife and all the friends around her and I only then (3 weeks into being Marie) realized how terrible it can be to not have a choice, to have to do the *necessary* thing.
I was heartbroken and hated myself for more than a week after that, before I finally realized that this is what „identity“ is all about and that I also have no choice but to follow my identity ...

Hugs to both of you,
Marie
I know this is an old post, but one of the trans authors just wrote an article and it had a lot of good information in it regarding the real life Danish Girl and how her and her wife differed from the movie in major ways. And also some good insights into how society view things. I’ll post it below because I thought it was 1) well written and 2) insightful.

 
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