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Monica

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Donna, didn't mean to derail your thread with this. The story has merit to be relative to you. He lived his life as genuine as he could. I suspect it was very fulfilling for him to be accepted as he was by his comrades. When people found out that he was trans, the establishment tried to diminish him and deny his true nature. The people in his life who truly new him, stood by his side and fought for him. I suspect this is true in our world today. Some would only grow in their respect for you, others wouldn't care either way, and still others will distance themselves, thinking of you as an 'other.' Doesn't it come down to which set of risks you want to take. It is risky if they find out without you telling the story. It is risky if you tell the story. You are doing nothing wrong, certainly, but we all deal with the prejudices of people in our society.
 

Linde

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Don't see a lot of cis women my age getting boob jobs.
My sister in law did. All her life she had the tiniest A size one could think of, but she nursed three kids! She was 60 when she gave herself new boobs as a birthday gift. She definitely looked different after this bob job.

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linde
 

Donna

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I had a learning experience and I want to tell everyone here about it.

I started a volunteer job in January working in an office for a non profit oeganisation. I had one encounter with this organization in 2015 as a male in one of their events.

When I interviewed with the Director of the Foundation she asked me how I knew about them and I mentioned the event in 2015. It turns out that they keep records of all their events even with photos. She looked up my last name and then said, "Is Don your husband? I did not want to lie so I told her it was me.

She figured this out before the interview but just wanted to see if I would tell the truth, and then told me she is perfectly OK with it and all my interactions with her up to now proved that she was more than OK with it and was an advocate for my success as a woman.

So I started work there 3 days a week. There was another woman in the office, Karen and she was very nice to me. The Director kept on encouraging me to be me and to tell Karen that I was trans so eventualy I did. She basically said "so" and said it made no difference to her. Well it turned out it did.

She stopped being friendly with me and all I got was a "hi" and "goodbye" every time I was there.

A few weeks ago they hired another woman and for the first week she was very friendly to me, then it stopped and she would chat frequently with Karen but not with me, I think Karen told her I was trans.

It got so bad when I heard them chatting and giggling and I felt like an outcast so I quit the job this week.

The lesson I learned is if you stay stealth, the other women consider you a woman and will share everything with you and once they know you are a man that stops. Women treat women and men entirely different and as I said before, it's a club, and club members are treated warmly. It does not help that women are taught that they are oppressed my men in society and discriminated against, so the club members have to stick together and be careful with men. They don't get it that a trans woman wants to be one of them. They might even think that you are intruding.

Donna
 

OzGirl

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Donna, interpersonal relationships are usually complicated. What you described is almost word for word what my ex told me about her job at a school, which she nearly quit. She was older than the other women, and had no children, so she was different. She persisted, did her job for another 12 months, and finally won the respect of the other women, so is now included. Before I came out to my work colleagues (nearly all women) they had accepted me as one of them, actually saying I was the most sensitive of them all, and calling me 'Nanna' because of the way I fussed over my grandkids. I had been working with them for 8 years, and we exchanged quite sensitive information, things you would not discuss with men. Nothing has changed since I transitioned. So I have learned that being different for any reason can cause one to be excluded ( men excluded me for years!) , but it is not always the end.

Some might exclude you for being trans, but if you persist and show them you are a person worth knowing, they can come around. If you don't admit you are tans, you may be included, but if they find out later on, you will have a major trust issue, which is harder to overcome. It seems like we can't win in any circumstance, which is probably true, but an inclusive future is possible!

Hugs,

Allie
 
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Donna

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Found a few videos on stealth issues. Both happen to be about trans men. I found the thought process here might be something relatable possibly.

 

Donna

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Donna, interpersonal relationships are usually complicated. What you described is almost word for word what my ex told me about her job at a school, which she nearly quit. She was older than the other women, and had no children, so she was different. She persisted, did her job for another 12 months, and finally won the respect of the other women, so is now included. Before I came out to my work colleagues (nearly all women) they had accepted me as one of them, actually saying I was the most sensitive of them all, and calling me 'Nanna' because of the way I fussed over my grandkids. I had been working with them for 8 years, and we exchanged quite sensitive information, things you would not discuss with men. Nothing has changed since I transitioned. So I have learned that being different for any reason can cause one to be excluded ( men excluded me for years!) , but it is not always the end.

Some might exclude you for being trans, but if you persist and show them you are a person worth knowing, they can come around. If you don't admit you are tans, you may be included, but if they find out later on, you will have a major trust issue, which is harder to overcome. It seems like we can't win in any circumstance, which is probably true, but an inclusive future is possible!

Hugs,

Allie
Allie, I'm not sure it's a trust issue. If people find out someone is gay or an alcoholic, they were never obligated tell. So it's not trust but how someone feels after finding out. They might not like what you are.

It may be different with us because they thought that they were dealing with a woman, but are people obligated to tell people their secrets? It's complicated.

Yes we can't win. I am trying to be accepted as a woman and not a third gender.

Donna
 

OzGirl

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Allie, I'm not sure it's a trust issue. If people find out someone is gay or an alcoholic, they were never obligated tell. So it's not trust but how someone feels after finding out. They might not like what you are.

It may be different with us because they thought that they were dealing with a woman, but are people obligated to tell people their secrets? It's complicated.

Yes we can't win. I am trying to be accepted as a woman and not a third gender.

Donna
Donna, if a guy acts all macho and is accepted by hetero guys, and later they find out he is gay, how do you think they would react? He would be branded a sneak, and not to be trusted (or worse!). Anybody who is found out not to be as they were perceived will face a trust issue. We need to accept that fact to help us make the right decisions.

Hugs,

Allie
 

Linde

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I am very much like Donna, I am a woman, and not a trans woman. I do everything I can to avoid to be outed. It is a little easier with me, because I am more a home buddy, but there is only a very limited number of people here where I live, who know that I used to live as a man.
Not even all of my medical providers know that I was not a female all of my life.
Today I have pelvic floor physical therapy, and for them I am nothing but a woman. Luckily, my order says caused by surgical correction of intersex vagina, referring to this dimple vagina I had from birth on.

The trans guy in the video Monica posted, did something I don't understand, why in the world did he feel he had to come out? It looks to me it was because he is a narcist , and wanted to get into the lime light, and become a central figure!

I was born a woman, and I am still a woman, it is nobodies business to know that I lived in-between now and my birth as a man. That time was miserable enough, I don't have to push every bodies nose into it now.


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Linde
 

Monica

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The trans guy in the video Monica posted, did something I don't understand, why in the world did he feel he had to come out? It looks to me it was because he is a narcist , and wanted to get into the lime light, and become a central figure!
Linde, I'm of a different mind here. I don't question his motives. I think there is a pressure that comes with being stealth. It does require a bit of an altered life narrative to be stealth. Maybe he felt like he just didn't want the pressure of withholding a secret any longer. Or maybe he wanted to claim his trans identity. I don't have any negative judgement for him or you or Donna or anyone. After relieving myself of my gender secret, I was ecstatic of course. Now I find myself back in the closet for for sexual preferences. I hate it, simply hate keeping a secret about anything that crucial to my life.
 

Confused

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Linde, I'm of a different mind here. I think there is a pressure that comes with being stealth. It does require a bit of an altered life narrative to be stealth. Maybe he felt like he just didn't want the pressure of withholding a secret any longer. I hate it, simply hate keeping a secret about anything that crucial to my life.

Linde, I have to agree with Monica. I am out to several people now, but it can be hard listen to what is going on around you without speaking up. I have bit my lip till there was almost blood a few times.

If it would only affect me, I would tell the world. Pretty soon, I think coming out could get you in jail in Arkansas. I had planned to get my drivers license changed to non binary after surgery, but now I'm not sure it would benefit me. I've already made the governor mad at me.

Hugs,
Mike
 

Linde

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. Now I find myself back in the closet for for sexual preferences. I hate it, simply hate keeping a secret about anything that crucial to my life.
And I am entirely open about this new development with me. My ex is even advising me what to look for in older guys. She actually likes me being stealth.
I do not live in a closet at all, I live the pretty normal life of an older woman, and nobody would ever get any idea of doubting this. But everybody around me, who knew me as a man, are all excited that I am not a man anymore, and they have mostly forgotten how I was like as a man.

Today, I was at the first pelvic floor physical therapy of my life. The therapist, who is a very attractive young woman in her late 20s, and has my surgical report available, told me that my vulva looks very natal, and once I did enough scar massage, nobody would know that tis is a neo vulva and a neo vagina.
I am currently not allowed to utilize the new parts for sexual activities, but once this ban is gone, I hope my scars will be gone, too, and this is the last remaining hurdle that is removed for me, for living fully cis.
I see absolutely no reason to inform anybody that I was not living as a female all my life.
I might have some advantages in this area because of my biology, and I plan to use this to the hilt. I had to suffer enough because of it when I was young, and now is payback time


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Linde
 
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